Wiring a single phase motor to drum switch - Page 2
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 21 to 38 of 38
  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    MI USA
    Posts
    976
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    204
    Likes (Received)
    402

    Default 1Φ Motor Internal Thermal Protection Connections

    Pi and P2 is the thermal protector built in, either manual reset or automatic. Manual reset has the external red reset button, automatic (no button) is cool to reset. It has a 3rd internal connection as well.

    How it is connected to protect the motor windings is dependent on the voltage the motor is wired for, if of a dual voltage variety. The motor connection tag will show how it's to be wired for the low/high voltage connections.

    The thermal overload switch heating element is selected to measure the current in running windings either series or parallel connected . This enables it to sense current correctly for either high or low voltage connections. Because the current for one run winding in 120v is the same as both windings on high 240V, but needs to be connected properly.

    The drawing above shows the 120V connection of the windings, below is a sample with 240V connections and a thermal protector. The motor section is essentially the same (albeit shown for high voltage) with the addition of the TP (thermal protector). The drum switch is different however, so ignore that part.

    P1 on the TP switch is the input power. P2 is the switched center tap to power the second run winding when connected in low voltage mode. #3 or P3 is internally connected to the first run winding.

    In the case of low voltage connections, P2 instead of being insulated (capped off), would be connected to T3, to power the other run winding.

    The intent is the TP cuts off all power to both run windings in either connection mode, but measures the same current in either connection, to make it function properly for either connection.

    Hopefully that make sense enough for you to finger it out. If not post a namplate and connection diagram from the unit in question for further assistance.

    SAF Ω
    drumswtyps-230v-conndiag.jpg

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Arizona USA
    Posts
    49
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    Yes JST I have found that P1 and P2 are for the thermal protector part of the motor.
    my only problem (as I see it at least) is how to wire the 2 into a drum switch and that diagram above is the closest that I have found except the diagram doesnt have a P1 and a P2.
    The motor I took off is a 3 phase the one I am putting on is a 1 phase, I bought a 1 phase drum switch to use, that is what I want to use, I also want to wire it to 110V.
    I am just trying to get some help on the wiring thats all, I know how to use a switch I just dont know how to hook it up, I have checked all over the internet and I have found nothing that helps me on the P1 and P2 wires.
    Maybe Im asking too much here I guess Im sorry but I dont know what for.
    I am not bothered by flipping it into reverse, I have never done that on any lathe ever and that doesnt matter because nothing happens anyway (on a single phase motor anyway as I understand it). thanks again for any help somebody might be able to give me on this one problem only.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    St Louis
    Posts
    18,635
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2119
    Likes (Received)
    3309

    Default

    SAF gave a good diagram. The only thing is that sometimes the p1 and P2 are not internally connected, so then you must make the connection yourself.

    This also may help

    http://www.lathe.com/wiring_diagrams.htm

    If you have a single phase switch it may differ from those shown.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Arizona USA
    Posts
    49
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    Thanks for the quick reply, both of you.
    SAF that is a great job explaining my motor and what i have even though I gave you very little info on it, you are a great help to this forum, it is a Dayton model 6K321D so the Craftsman in the diagram works.
    The other thing I have to do is work out the details on the drum switch because its like the Furnace type in your other diagram not the Style S with the Craftsman diagram, I cant have everything I guess.
    I probably will use your diagrams as help and just hire a tech. and do it that way and get it over with that way.

    This wiring stuff is the only thing that drives me crazy, I bought a SB heavy 10 that had been stored in a barn for a long time (maybe the phase converter stopped working?) but I cleaned it up and Im going to use it instead of parting it out, I already had the Dayton motor and the old switch was the push button type and I assusmed was for only 3 phase but I could find no and I mean NO info on the web about wiring it, makes no differance now because I bought the drum switch new and its for single phase its a Relay and Control Corp. RS-1A-SH model. And in my case it just works better for it to be 110V for now, my other heavy 10 is 220V.
    Thats my story and thank you for your time on this it is a big help. Steve

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    MI USA
    Posts
    976
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    204
    Likes (Received)
    402

    Default 1Φ ThermallyProtected DualVolt CapStart Motor W/ RevDrumSwitch 120V Connections

    UpsRogue,

    Try this, should be similar to what ya got.

    1-tpdualvolt120v-drum.jpg

    SAF Ω

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Arizona USA
    Posts
    49
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    YES I wired it per this last diagram you gave and the only thing I had to do is reverse T5 and T8 as you stated might happen and I have forward and reverse AND I have another piece of "American Iron" South Bend Heavy 10 making chips again after I dont know how many years it sit in a barn doing nothing.
    I thank you SAF again for your time to help little ole me, and a plus I can read your diagrams too, maybe sometime I will be able to pay you back in some way here on the forum. Steve

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    MI USA
    Posts
    976
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    204
    Likes (Received)
    402

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by upsrogue View Post
    I thank you SAF again for your time to help little ole me, and a plus I can read your diagrams too, maybe sometime I will be able to pay you back in some way here on the forum. Steve
    Click the like button and consider it done. SAF Ω

  8. Likes upsrogue liked this post
  9. #28
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Country
    CANADA
    State/Province
    British Columbia
    Posts
    6
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SAF View Post
    UpsRogue,

    Try this, should be similar to what ya got.

    1-tpdualvolt120v-drum.jpg

    SAF Ω
    Hello,

    I'm brand new on the forum and looking for some help in wiring a dual voltage single phase 1/2 HP motor that has a start and a run capacitor as well as an overload protector. I would like to wire this motor to a drum switch.

    The motor works and reverses by switching lines 5 and 8 on the motor. The switch works perfectly on another motor. A friend who is an electrician hooked up the motor to the drum switch, it worked on forward but smoked when it was put into reverse. The motor was tested after and still works great.

    I have taken apart the motor to decipher the wiring and am confused by the start capacitor wiring. There are three wires coming off of the start capacitor: one goes to the run capacitor and then two come off of the other connector tab , one of which goes to the CS and the other directly to the back of a terminal post (linking with #1 and #3 run winding wires. Some of the wiring appears to have been changed from the original judging by the coatings on some of the wires.

    I would be greatful if someone could provide a wiring diagram for the lower voltage that involves a run capacitor in the circuit like the one by SAF above to show what the wiring should be like.

    Please also let me know if it is even possible to wire this motor to the drum switch.

    Motor: Rockwell Manufacturing Company (Canada) 62-683 1140 rpm
    Switch: Delta Manufacturing Company No. 1116 rated for 1/2 HP at 110 V ("L" type like in the diagram above)

    Thank you in advance,

    Rob

  10. #29
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    MI USA
    Posts
    976
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    204
    Likes (Received)
    402

    Default

    Rob, we need photos to see what you have. Part numbers don't help.

    Motor tag and wiring, switch type and wiring.

    SAF Ω

  11. #30
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Country
    CANADA
    State/Province
    British Columbia
    Posts
    6
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SAF View Post
    Rob, we need photos to see what you have. Part numbers don't help.

    Motor tag and wiring, switch type and wiring.

    SAF Ω
    Here are a few photos:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails img_0120.jpg   img_0125.jpg   img_0133.jpg   img_0134.jpg   img_0129.jpg  


  12. #31
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Country
    CANADA
    State/Province
    British Columbia
    Posts
    6
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    Here's a diagram of the wires when I had it apart. Some of the wires connect in behind the board. please let me know if you need a clearer description.

    Thanks again,

    Rob
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails img_0137.jpg  

  13. #32
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    MI USA
    Posts
    976
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    204
    Likes (Received)
    402

    Default

    What voltage do you want to operate at?

  14. #33
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Country
    CANADA
    State/Province
    British Columbia
    Posts
    6
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SAF View Post
    What voltage do you want to operate at?
    115 V

    Thanks again!

  15. #34
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    MI USA
    Posts
    976
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    204
    Likes (Received)
    402

    Default

    Rob,

    I cant finger out enough detail to make you a diagram from what is provided, there is some details missing. But I can give some pointers on what I can decipher.

    First off, on 5 and 8 the start winding wires, you cannot completely disconnect them from the motor connection plate, as in the drawing you were referencing from, and connect them directly to your drum switch.

    Doing so, as it appears you were doing, removes the start switch and capacitors from the loop. You need those caps and start switch in the start winding circuit in order for it to function correctly.

    Second, I don't believe your motor actually has a start winding, per say. I think what you have is two run windings. One acts strictly as a run winding. The other acts as a start during starting period, and then switches to a run winding mode when the centrifugal switch opens.

    This is why there is a start cap and a run cap. Both caps are parallel connected to the second winding in the start mode. Then when the centrifugal switch opens, the start cap is disconnected, and the run cap remains in the circuit, to provide a phase shift, for the dual purpose 2nd winding, to remain energized and act as a run winding.

    This is very different from the drawing that you used to start with. The reason why is the sample drawing you referenced is for a 4 pole motor (1800 RPM), your motor is a 6 pole ( 1200 RPM)

    Here is a sample diagram for this type of internal wiring from a 5HP 230V only motor, different from your dual voltage motor, but very similar in the start /run winding setup. Shows both caps connected in parallel, to the same secondary (B phase) winding.

    baldor5hp-1-l1410t-dwg.jpg

    It appears that the motor connection tag was on the rear of the motor and got painted over. If it's still there you might be able to use some brake fluid to soften and remove the paint, without removing the graphic makings of of the tag. That info could help a lot. Most small motors have the connection diagram attatched to the terminal cover plate, does yours have this?

    Lastly your motor cable doesn't have enough wires for reversing. You have a 3 wire cable with ground. You need 4 wire with ground. Your NEVER allowed to use the green ground conductor for anything other than grounding. If you can't locate a piece of 4 wire with ground, use a flex conduit with the wires installed that you require. DO NOT use the green for a circuit conductor.

    SAF Ω

  16. #35
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Country
    CANADA
    State/Province
    British Columbia
    Posts
    6
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    Thank you for sharing your expertise!

    I didn't include tho motor's diagram as it doesn't match up with what's actually there. The grey wires on the motor replace the black wires on the diagram.

    Thanks for the information about it being a 6 pole motor. We hooked it up, according to your 4 pole diagram, using short leads that we added to the #5 and #8 terminals to connect to the other appropriate leads and grey wires in a box attached to the motor.

    Would using a multimeter to check the resistance through the windings confirm the configuration and number of run/start (if any) windings in the motor?

    I'm guessing that using the green as a conductor is a safety concern for the next person to work on the wiring? I will look for the proper replacement. Thank you for this.

    Lastly, do you know of any good books/resources that would be a good reference for learning more about single phase ad motors?

    Thanks again for all your help, it is very much appreciated!

    Rob
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails img_0140.jpg  

  17. #36
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    MI USA
    Posts
    976
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    204
    Likes (Received)
    402

    Default Dual Voltage, Dual Capacitor, Reversible, 1Φ Motor Connections

    Rob,

    Here is a typical diagram for a dual voltage, dual capacitor, 1Φ motor, using the conventional NEMA wiring numbering. You can use this diagram to sort out the windings on your particular unit with a ohm meter.



    Here is the site that the drawing is from, figure 12.
    Electrical Control Circuit Schematic Diagram of Two-Value Capacitor Motor

    For the reversing feature to work with your drum switch, your particular unit is different in that some of the winding leads and capacitor leads are connected to the rear of the connection plate. The centrifugal switch appears to be attached to the connection plate, from your drawing.

    You need to realize that the centrifugal switch and capacitors need to remain in the auxiliary winding for it to function correctly. So depending on the circuit routing through the connection plate, you may need to interrupt the circuit on one side of the winding, to reroute to your drum switch, for reversing polarity. Possibly one from the connection plate and one from the auxiliary winding. Not both leads from the auxiliary winding.

    Only you can see the connection plate and the internal connections on the rear side, and where the switch and cap leads are terminated. All of the drawings provided show the leads external to the motor, you need to sort out how yours with the connection plate, differs from a motor with leads. Differnt manufacturers use different connection plates and internal connections. So you will not find any diagrams that are specific to your motor.

    Here is another site with some basic theory on 1Φ motors and types. if you get it sorted out, make a drawing and post it on your machine and here on this site for others to reference.

    http://www.mrelectrician.tv/conversi...rDiagrams.html

    SAF Ω

  18. #37
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Country
    CANADA
    State/Province
    British Columbia
    Posts
    6
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    Thank you SAF for all your time puzzling through my information and your help and pointing me in the right direction.

    The centrifugal switch is connected to the connection plate.

    I'll attempt the ohmmeter test and use the diagram above to figure out which wires should work. If I get it working I will post a diagram on this post.

    Thank you so much, this has been very valuable and I appreciate your responses to a post that was already two years old.

    Rob

  19. #38
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Illinois
    Posts
    2
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    Hello, I’m working through the same problem as in this thread. I have it described in detail over at this link: HELP wiring motor and drum switch
    Thanks for the help!


Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •