New-to-me No.2: what can you tell me about it?
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  1. #1
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    Default New-to-me No.2: what can you tell me about it?

    Wound up the maybe not-so-proud owner of a W&S No.2 in what appears to be pretty good shape.



    At least, I hope it's in pretty good shape, as I bought it after only having seen that photo, and have yet to take delivery of it.

    The story is it passed through three different hands in the last 18 months or so, with each buyer hoping they could do standard engine-lathe type work on it. Keeping in mind that this is Alaska, and decent lathes only show up for sale once every third blue moon but only following an election year.

    I found out about it via the grapevine, contacted the current owner, who wants more of a small desktop engine lathe, had 'im send me a pic, and bought it. Besides the thirty-plus collets shown, there's the 4-jaw, supposedly a three-jaw, and a basketful of turret tooling. (Which I have not yet seen.)

    If all goes well, I should be taking delivery on Wednesday. Running short on space in my converted-garage shop, but I figured it was worth the cost.

    For those that will ask, yes, I did specifically want a turret lathe, and yes, I know how to run one.

    I had my 11" Logan set up with a turret for several years, and made a ton of product on it. That machine got converted to CNC a few years back, and I've been teaching myself how to run it (with varying levels of success) ever since. I still have all the turret parts for the machine, and will be converting it back once I can afford a proper turning center.

    But in the meantime, I have sufficient product that I can keep both the homebrew CNC and a good turret decently supplied with work for the forseeable future. I still have a ton of turret tooling, in 5/8", 3/4" and 1" shank, and this one supposedly comes with as much or more. (You can see a couple peeking out from under the bed below the cross-slide handwheel.)

    Oh, and I have, and have read thoroughly, the W&S Operator's Manual.

    I say all this just to be clear I'm not some noob hoping for a cheap engine lathe I can use to make spacers for my tricycle. I know what I bought and I know how to use it. (At least generally speaking. )

    THAT said, I'm quite the noob as far as an actual, proper, purpose-built W&S turret lathe goes. So expect the usual share of stupid noob questions- although I'll try to refrain from asking if I can replace the ram with a tailstock.

    First off, I don't have the serial number yet, but can anyone give me a rough idea of this thing's age? I'm given to understand it's in good shape, with at best moderate overall use, and has most likely never been rebuilt, refurbished or repainted.

    The current owner tells me it's a 2-speed motor. What's the likely HP range? (Looking on the internet gives me a pretty wide potential range.)

    Roughly how much will it weigh? That part's mostly curiosity- the seller has an 8K forklift to load it, and I have a 966 on standby to unload. I also have a set of professional 20K-capacity machine skates to roll it into the shop.

    What's the spindle through-hole size? How to chucks mount? Is it a standard spindle of some sort, like an A or D-series, or is it some proprietary fitting?

    What's the spindle speed range?

    And, most importantly, but also probably most open-endedly, what should I specifically look for, and what sort of maintenance would you recommend? Change the headstock oil? Is there a headstock pump or is it splash-oiled? Are there clutches that will need adjustment or at least inspection?

    Thanks in advance, and I'll of course have pics of the unloading, installation and initial inspection.

    Doc.

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    Need to know "M" number stamped on head stock.

    One of them was the M-1330

    Oldies had threaded spindle nose, not so old has A type, six inch size. From your photo I would definitely say threaded spindle nose - since there is no A type flange in the photo.

    M-1330 had 1.844 thru hole, 2.063 C'bore 3.56 deep

    Next size up #3 circa 1934 had 3 HP regular, 5HP heavy duty

    1934 #3 was a 3200 Lb machine

    Serials for thirties start at 370,000 for 1930 and go to 495,000 in 1939

    Good pub to snag is "TOOLS" by W&S - mine is No. 59C - from that year

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    Threaded? What would the thread caliber be? I'm assuming that backplates would be a roll-your-own situation?

    Almost a moot point, as I'll likely be using collets for 95% of it's use, and it supposedly comes with two chucks, but it would be nice to have options.

    What's the max collet capacity for a #2? I'm assuming from the thru-hole about 1-3/4"?

    I'll have more info on the actual machine tomorrow, if all goes well.

    Doc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnoder View Post
    Good pub to snag is "TOOLS" by W&S - mine is No. 59C - from that year
    -Found an A and a C together on eBay for $30. There was one from 1912 that might have been interesting to read, too, but my budget has been somewhat depleted of late.

    Does anyone even still carry parts and tools, or is this, like so many other machines out there, strictly a used-market machine? (Like my Springfield, the Nichols, the Rockford, the Stockbridge... )

    Doc.

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    Agree with John it’s likely the threaded spindle & looks like it’s 2.375”dia x 8pitch. Speeds should be 12 total, from 67 to 1480RPMs. Also agree that snatching a W/S “Tools” book is good for lookin’ at the jewelry they made for these things… Attaching some stuff…

    Good luck,
    Matt
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails warnerswasey_tools-38f-1957_no2_allgearhead_scaled.jpg   warnerswasey_tools-38f-1957_threadedspindles_scaled.jpg   warnerswasey_tools-38f-1957_spindles-asa-typea.jpg   warnerswasey_tools-38f-1957_turretfacedims_scaled.jpg   warnerswasey_tools-38f-1957_crosslides_scaled.jpg  


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    Those are very useful! Do you have higher-resolution versions of those, or will those be found in the "Tools" books?

    Doc.

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    I'm assuming from the thru-hole about 1-3/4"?
    Moot so far. Matt's great images suggest way smaller if the threaded nose is actually 2 3/8 - 8. The old 3 had the same spindle bore as the later M-1330 number 2 - and that old #3 has 4 7/8 OD nose thread

    Here are a few "pictures" from the old #3 brochure dated 1934

    20200630_155432.jpg20200630_155501.jpg20200630_155530.jpg20200630_155607.jpg

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    Matt's great images suggest way smaller if the threaded nose is actually 2 3/8 - 8.
    -Would be nice if it could pass something bigger, but realistically, for the bulk of my products, if it can hold/pass about 1-1/16", it'll do the job. The Logan's 2-1/4"-8 spindle can take 1-3/8", which will of course take up to the max 5C capacity.

    Doc.

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    Looks like it'll be arriving tomorrow, Thursday. Which is good, as I'm still clearing a slot for it.

    Another quick Q: What do they call these collets? I've seen listings for "W&S #2" and "W&S #3", etc. so is it simply a Warner & Swasey collet that fits a #2 or a #3 machine, and so on? I'm assuming the larger ones get the collet pads and the like, though I have to admit I'm not 100% sure how those things work, just yet.

    Doc.

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    Your soon-to-arrive "TOOLS" will "splain" everything

    I expect the collets laying in the pan are the PUSH OUT variety - but there are also "draw backs" - not necessarily for the same machine

    Push out collet 178 has a major dia of 1 11/16 and was for the No.1 M-2620 and M-1270 and for the No. 2 M-1330

    Quote Originally Posted by DocsMachine View Post
    Looks like it'll be arriving tomorrow, Thursday. Which is good, as I'm still clearing a slot for it.

    Another quick Q: What do they call these collets? I've seen listings for "W&S #2" and "W&S #3", etc. so is it simply a Warner & Swasey collet that fits a #2 or a #3 machine, and so on? I'm assuming the larger ones get the collet pads and the like, though I have to admit I'm not 100% sure how those things work, just yet.

    Doc.


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