Warner & Swasey lathe repair
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    Hello,
    does anybody know what kind of compound or plastic is filled in between the upper and lower table in Warner & Swasey lathe machines? We are currently repairing one machine in Czech Republic and along with disassembling this machine into it's major components we also took apart these two pieces but totally shaterred the fill in compound. It's some kind of hard ceramic based oil resistant material or possibly special plastic. Can anyone advise where to call or advise anyone who has experience with this kin of repair?
    Does Warner & Swasey company still exist?
    Many thanks in advance for any info.
    i. Stepansky

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    The only form of plastic I am aware of on original equipment W/S machine was Moglice (but maybe I can't spell it). You do not say what kind of machine this is. Moglice was a liquid cast in place plastic. There is always the possibility that you machine has be rebuilt by a third party and who knows what they might have used. If we are talking about a turret lathe they were all cast iron.

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    John,
    Your spelling is good! MOGLICE. US Patent Number 4,329,238 For your reference.

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    Now I know how to spell it and know I have seen it wear away terribly but never seen it shatter. In my opinion it doesn't wear as well as cast iron. It was invented more for a quick fit. I wish W/S hadn't used it.

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    If you don't get any replies on this board, call Gahr Machinery in Cleveland.

    The manual tells you not to take the bed off the bases. That stuff keeps the coolant from dribbling all over the floor.

    Gahr does rebuilding and they have to disassemble the machines which means that they have the stuff when they put the lathes back together again.

    They even know how to apply it so that the bed and bases go back together right.

    Czech Republic, huh? I hope that the Czechs are taking a W&S apart so that they can make a knock-off of it. It would be nice to have a fresh supply of nice, new turret lathes.

    It wouldn't surprise me a bit if there weren't a lot of Czech and Polish hands that put the originals together in Cleveland at W&S.

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    Thank you all very much.
    Moglice sounds more like a compound for smaller repairs. But who knows.......... This thing I am looking for is filled in between two iron cast parts (top bed and another part underneat it.
    The reason that it is done like that is when W&S built it, they just precissely adjusted these two parts through bolts and then they pour in this compound to fill a gap in between so that they didn't have to grind these two parts.
    Can I use Moglice for this filling? Or does it sound completely stupid?
    Thanks,
    Ivo

    P.S. Yes, it's in Czech Republic believe it or not, they do all kind of things over there........

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    The reason that it is done like that is when W&S built it, they just precissely adjusted these two parts through bolts and then they pour in this compound to fill a gap in between so that they didn't have to grind these two parts.
    Can I use Moglice for this filling?
    Yes, you can use Moglice to fill this gap. This is what this product does best. There is a Moglice web site that can give you more infomation. It works good in this application, but takes a good day to harden.

    I wish W/S hadn't used it.
    I also wish W&S did not start to use Moglice. When some X-W&S guys came to Monarch they brought the idea of using this product not only in place of static grind shims but also in dynamic gibs and bearing surfaces. This was a complete dissaster! :mad: This product was heavily used on Monarch early Ultra-Centers and cause much of the problems for this machine.

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    Thans for the info.........
    Now I just have to find out the price.......because I need like 8 littres of that thing.
    I have also found that there is something similar to it called DWH 310, some kind of compound.
    Thanks,
    Ivo

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    I remember doing this in 1953, in "A" Assembly, under Conrad Nuhn, Foreman,and Bill Surrell, his asistant.

    There was a 1/8" pipe-tapped hole in the bed next to each of the holes for the bolts that attached the cast-iron bed to the cast-iron legs at the foot end (only) of the machine.

    The welded steel coolant pan was sandwiched between these, and there was a spacer between these that was slightly thicker than the pan, that would allow the steel pan to move independently from the bed under temperature variations.

    An alemite fitting or grease-zert as it's called by some, was screwed in, and this space, perhaps .050" per side was filled with some stuff that we pumped in with a grease gun. My guess is that it was #2 Permatex, though I'm sure some auto silicone would be OK these days.

    There is also a gasket shown on plate 2 of my 2-A M-510, starting Lot 155 Parts Book, but I don't remember this...

    Jack do you remember doing this, or perhaps Messrs. Nuhn and Surrell?

    Ah, yes, those were the Days!

    BG

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    Stepansky - Please tell us what kind of machine we are talking about here. This thread is kind of stumbling around in the dark. Moglice was used under sliding surfaces, between carriage and bed and between the cross slide and carriage, also under the tailstock of the Universal. A totally different, as far as I know, compound was used to afix the spindle cartridge in the headstock. That stuff was not made to slide but only to fill and hold. As far as I know the only machines this technology was used on was the Universal and the 2-MSC. From my experience with several machines if I was rebuilding one I would machine out the slides and put back Turcite or something similar. Moglice may or not be a quick fit on a one-off rebuild but you may have to do it again in a few years. It would be hard to align everything right without the fixtures that W/S had.

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    OK, I'm confused now, I have no clue about this, I'm little bit off this field. The repair is being done by my father, I am just helping him out. I have posted some pictures of the main top part (bed) and the part that it sits on it underneath it. These two pars are on top of each other like the sandwich being held by the special plastic metal that was poured in the gap between.
    here take a look:
    http://www.bvaudio.com/top.jpe
    http://www.bvaudio.com/bottom.jpe
    http://www.bvaudio.com/bottom1.jpe

    It was some kind of orange very hard ceramic structure plastic.
    Thanks,
    Ivo

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    That looks very like the bed of a 315 Universal.
    Is it?
    regards,Mark.

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    JimK says "I hope the Czechs are taking it apart"
    Well Jim,not the Czechs but the Indians are building Universals.They are offering choice of bed length and control.I believe they bought the manufacturing rights before Thyssen sold the lot off.
    An ex W & S guy in the UK has been offered the selling and service agency.He`s been over and had a look and was quite impressed.Prices start at 40,000 sterling.Which is seriously cheap for a machine that size in the UK.
    regards,Mark.

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    That is a Universal bedway. I don't think W/S ever expected anyone to ever separate that from the base once assembled. That bedway section was bolted on the base and straightened and aligned with jack screws and when everything was aligned within specs. the plastic stuff was injected between to lock in the alignments. It will be difficult to put that back together without a twist in the bed. Maybe the present manufacturer in India can name the plastic filler. Were the ways worn enough to require regrinding? Was that the reason for disassembly? Those ways were probably only case hardened. Regrinding will result in softer ways. In my opinion a Universal wasn't made to be rebuilt like an SC-25 or SC-32 or the column machines (2-SC, 3-SC.)
    The Universal was conceived as a cheap and easy to manufacture machine on an assembly line. The bedway assy. was made flat to be easy to grind. The angled base that made it a slantbed had only drilled holes in it, no milling or planing. The headstock only had a rough bore because the precision alignment of the spindle was accomplished by centering a spindle cartridge in the hole and and shooting the surrounding space full of plastic. The carriage and cross slide were aligned on fixtures and Moglice shot in the junction for a sliding surface to eliminate scraping to fit. The tailstock quill was aligned the same way, it slides in plastic that sometimes swells up and jams the quill. The whole machine was desigfned to compete with the cheaper Japanese machines but did not hold up and wear like the older designs. Operators liked the Universals but the sheetmetal made maintenance hell. Like the 1-SC and SC-15 the rebuild costs are probably more than a machine that size is worth.

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    John,
    I don't think W/S ever expected anyone to ever separate that from the base once assembled.
    I guess you are right, that's exactly what my father said, nobody ever expected to take it apart.
    That bedway section was bolted on the base and straightened and aligned with jack screws and when everything was aligned within specs. the plastic stuff was injected between to lock in the alignments.
    Absolutely correct.

    I wouldn't say it's gonna be a problem to put it together again without twisting it, it can be done with little extra care. Our problem is to find out the name of plastic filler. Once we know it, we put it back together.
    Who did you say it makes now? Some company in India?? Is it possible to get any more info on that company please?
    Once we get that plastic filler, we are all set.
    Thanks for the insight, I appreciate it. Your words just confirm what I thought.

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    John,I hear what you say about the rebuild costs for a Uni probably being more than they are worth.But,do you think it would be possible for an average machine tool fitter with the right lifting and measuring gear to do it.
    The reason I am asking is,as you know I have two of these machines and there is really nothing to beat them for metal removal and finish.They have 76mm up the drawbar,80 Hp and weigh 10 tons.Comparable machines have 50 Hp and weigh 4/5 tons.We run a job of 75mm bar where we plunge a 16mm dia button tool straight in for a depth of 12mm.That equates to a cut 24mm/ 15/16" wide,we get no vibration and a mirror finish.Try that on the Japanese stuff.
    I believe that most of the Uni`s sold in the UK are in Scotland as they were popular with the companies doing oilfield work.
    regards,Mark.

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    Mr Stepansky,have a look at:-

    www.moglice.de

    regards,Mark.

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    Mark, thanks,
    I bumbed already into this website. I told them to contact this company directly and ask for advice.
    Thanks,
    Ivo

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    Ivo,I`ve since found a better site for info on moglice.

    www.moglice.com

    regards,Mark.

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    I do not know who made the filler material. Mark McGrath said the machines were now being made in India and I was saying that the Indians must have a source for the stuff. I don't know that it was a Moglice product, I only heard that name referring to the sliding material. The filler material was different designed to hold an assembly in place and not to slide. I believe I heard the filler described as having granite chips or dust in it.
    Mark - I don't remember our Universals having 80 HP, more like 50. Maybe you had a different model over there. I thought there were only two versions, the standard length made in the USA and a long bed version made in England. The English model had Siemans electrics and ours had Fanuc. We only had five Universals in Houston, one was an English built machine and it is the only one still running. We had trouble with the Moglice wearing unevenly, faster where there was more weight, throwing the machine alignments out. Drills wouldn't be parallel to the spindle, turning tool center height would be off. One customer's machine had a slot milled in the Z way cover by the tips of the tools when the turret indexed. With the X left cap gib screwed all the way in I could stick my screwdriver in with it. Customer was making pipe flanges, not too critical for tolerence.


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