Advice on building an exterior door for house in extreme cold environment - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill D View Post
    Btu's for how long?
    Bill D
    per hour as all such measurements are done

    if you are going after my shorthand, is spelling next?

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    As I think on it, air sealing is really improtant at those temps. a small leak will probably freeze the moisture coming out of the house so quickly it could freeze the door shut

    Cardinal makes some multiple coating triple pane that is R6 center of glass, I used some of this to make some custom sliders for my house and the inner pane measures something in the mid/low 60s when it is below zero out, ~69 degrees inside. This is not the kind of temps you are dealing with, but to give you frame of reference

    LoĒ Performance Statistics

    bottom of the page they get up to u.11, R9. I couldn't get them to build them that thick back 7 years ago.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveBausch View Post
    The client will eventually reconsider not having an airlock/mud room.
    Despite being a great idea, most houses don't have arctic entries. Mud room/entryway yes, but not a proper arctic entry. Even when people remodel and add an entryway, it is usually connected to the living area. If you have a two car garage, you're probably going through the garage most of the time anyway, which acts as a sort of arctic entry.

    The only place I've seen them used consistently is in the bush. You don't tend to see big garages, and people don't drive cars as much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    per hour as all such measurements are done

    if you are going after my shorthand, is spelling next?
    I did not know the BTU's is always per hour. Thanks for the info. For AC it is tons per day or BTU's which I guess is per hour also. On the nameplates I have seen it just says BTUs with no mention of time.
    Bill D

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    Quote Originally Posted by richard newman View Post
    Gotta believe that the Alaskans (and Siberians, Tibetans, Tiera del Feugans, etc) have this figured out by now. Field trip!!!
    Buncha cheechakos. Real Alaskans just call another sled dog in and cuddle up

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  7. #26
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    I Dug up some pictures of the last door I did. It was Sapele that I used a Timberstrand as a core for. By cutting 3/16" veneers on my bandsaw and sanding them down to 1/8 once they were adhered, I was able to get the door out of one piece of wood for consistency.

    Unfortunately, I do not have a good overall of it installed. I suspect the alaskan doors will be of similar look.
    frontdoor-1.jpg
    frontdoor-2.jpg
    frontdoor-3.jpg
    frontdoor-4.jpg
    frontdoor-5.jpg

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    a few details of the door installed. You can see the seal I went with and the rabbeted construction for the jambs.

    frontdoor-7.jpg
    frontdoor-8.jpg
    frontdoor-9.jpg

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    Oh and one last Picture- for Stephen and his "bad" influence on me. It's kinda too much knowledge somedays when you learn of a better way and have to do it that way because you just know it's better, but its more work. Without further ado, my dovetailed jamb- stepped where the rabbet for the door seal is.
    frontdoorjamb-1.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by sfriedberg View Post
    You start running into issues where the width of the door across the (plan, not elevation) diagonal with hinges at one end is significantly more than the width of the door flat on. The vertical corner diagonally across from the hinges starts running into the jamb. So you need more clearance in the jamb (bad for sealing) or hinges somewhat fancier than a simple pivot (expensive, nonstandard) or a door/jamb with a taper on the edge opposite the hinge side (expensive, nonstandard).

    Look at a thick bank vault or safe door. They are almost always tapered on the edge opposite the hinges.
    It seems like it would pretty easy to cut the door and jamb opposite the hinges at an angle or even a radius and even put in a step like suggested previously to get around the problem of a big gap or sticking door.

    I can't understand why they don't make thicker doors either.

    I would not want to build and have to warranty a door a wood door in the environment originally described even if using stave construction.

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    What everyone said- also look to how folk have done this already in the countless homes, research stations, military etc in the far north,

    Quote Originally Posted by crzypete View Post
    Thanks for the replies. These are two standard house entry doors. They will have some glass, possibly quite a bit of glass on one of them.

    Unfortunately, the ship has sailed on an air lock, this is the main line of defense against the weather.

    And Richard, Of course I need to go on site to do the install!!!

    Anyone have any core material suggestions? The last door I did, I used engineered lumber, which was amazingly straight and didn't require any prep work, but I feel like moisture may be getting in and swelling it a bit, will probably only use those for interior doors in the future. Thinking solid wood for these.

    Peter
    For what core you can get into design- Aerogel cored vacuum panels.
    Buy from a top end provider as the package needs catalysts in panel to counter out gassing for long service life.
    These will buy you R50/inch.
    They are provided in custom panels so can be built for installation around lights etc.
    They are expensive but this whole project will be anyways so a grand or two for panels is not so much.

    I see the primary problem is creating the seal system.
    I assume you are building the whole kit- jambs etc?

    Again- reefer design etc for seals.
    We are not talking peel and stick foam strip here- the door and jambs need milled for the installation of replaceable seals- probably both compression and sweep types so double seal on door.
    A 'storm door' so two skins is common enough and buys lots of weather seal without the addition of a mud room.

    So so maybe 1-1/4" or a bit more for core void, 1/4" or so for structural skins (less is G10 laminate or the like) then the cosmetic overlay..
    Certainly this is more along the lines of a laminating project than joinery..

    I think I would be vacuum bagging the skin/overly sandwich in one operation then doing the bond down of both skins to core/perimeter box frame in the second.
    Structurally easy enough- having it look the part as a craftsman build object not so much.

    The box frame is the part I am wondering about- probably the right high density foam/expanded resin sheet milled on a CNC router.
    Elements added as needed to for jamb sides and framing around lights etc.
    "Coosa" foam board in a marine type which is along the lines of what one is looking for.

    Don't forget threaded inserts bonded in for hinge/hardware etc when considering the 'hard points' to carry load as well as G10 tubes bonded in for lock sets etc.

    Epoxy is your friend...

    Edit- how thick are the walls?
    I would be seriously looking at a in sweep/out sweep double door set with air gap between.
    Commercial full light storm doors with insulated glass so you are not making those as well..

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    Really well thought out post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sfriedberg View Post
    You start running into issues where the width of the door across the (plan, not elevation) diagonal with hinges at one end is significantly more than the width of the door flat on. The vertical corner diagonally across from the hinges starts running into the jamb. So you need more clearance in the jamb (bad for sealing) or hinges somewhat fancier than a simple pivot (expensive, nonstandard) or a door/jamb with a taper on the edge opposite the hinge side (expensive, nonstandard).

    Look at a thick bank vault or safe door. They are almost always tapered on the edge opposite the hinges.
    Or a walk-in freezer door; pretty much what's under discussion here, only in reverse!

    The big issue would be cosmetics I would think - if those are an issue?

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    Wooden door in the Alaska? That's a strange idea, I think.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LForward1 View Post
    Wooden door in the Alaska? That's a strange idea, I think.
    Nope, it's not. Did you read the whole thread? If you add proper core materials, it will help. And one more thing - the main door itself is not all of defence against cold in the house. Nobody mentioned internal room dividers. These counts too. An example: one of my friends lives in Canada. Canada has cold environment too. Before he installed these new french doors in the house, there was freaking cold every winter. Despite the fact he had good windows and front door. I don't really know how it works, but it really works somehow.

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    Old thread, but those French doors (the ones with glass in them) have the worst R value of almost any door. From a thermal point of view, a couple pieces of plastic stretched across a 2x4 frame would be better, as would a solid 6 panel wood door..

    Double pane Insulated glass is about R3. A door with 4" thick extruded styro is R20, more than 6x the insulating value.

    You spamming for the door company?

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    Quote Originally Posted by neilho View Post
    Old thread, but those French doors (the ones with glass in them) have the worst R value of almost any door. From a thermal point of view, a couple pieces of plastic stretched across a 2x4 frame would be better, as would a solid 6 panel wood door..

    Double pane Insulated glass is about R3. A door with 4" thick extruded styro is R20, more than 6x the insulating value.

    You spamming for the door company?
    Totally agree with you! But I wouldn't buy a glass door mainly because I have kids running around the house, and who knows how resistant these doors are...

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    Quote Originally Posted by herpawearo View Post
    Nope, it's not. Did you read the whole thread? If you add proper core materials, it will help. And one more thing - the main door itself is not all of defence against cold in the house. Nobody mentioned internal room dividers. These counts too. An example: one of my friends lives in Canada. Canada has cold environment too. Before he installed these new french doors in the house, there was freaking cold every winter. Despite the fact he had good windows and front door. I don't really know how it works, but it really works somehow.
    Not sure how good the glass doors are for keeping the cold outside...

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    Cool

    Hey!
    I'm very envious (but kind) of those people who can do something with their own hands!
    My dad's a handyman, too.
    I let him read your dialogue. He's very excited.
    He's even got his own mortgage on the house, who wants to come in and support him - Household Professor - Thank you!

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    Sit tight someone will be along with their spammer rape whistle shortly


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