Anyone have a Sawstop in the shop?
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  1. #1
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    Default Anyone have a Sawstop in the shop?

    I have been thinking for a while to get setup with one of these.
    One showed up used on the market so I drove out to take a look.
    Industrial 5 hp 52”
    Shame the not much used saw looked like it had been moved a few times by idiots and was fairly beat up as well as rusty etc.

    The thing that got me though was when I showed up the seller was in a panic call to Sawstop trying to find out why the saw was faulting out and would not start.
    He gets the a recording and drops the call while rummaging in the motor box which turns on the saw while he was still hands in the box crawling under the saw.... muttering something about “sawdust”.

    Sooooo..

    What’s the deal?
    It would be a royal PITA to have a saw in a commercial shop on the fritz with gremlins.
    BUT... I am still interested in getting one of these in the shop.
    Anyone running one?

    Thanks

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    We understand the brake is one time replaceable and not cheap.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

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    Do you have employees using the saw? If you are the only one, and you are comfortable with saws in general, the sawstop may not be the most important feature for you. On the other hand, it can save you from a serious claim by an employee. On the third hand, any embedded metal will activate the break. On the fourth hand, it is a decent saw.

    dee
    ;-D

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    Thanks D
    If I had employee’s there would already be one in the shop.
    My question is isn’t if the safety feature is required, just if the saws are proving to be trouble free in owners shops.

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    We are a Sawstop Dealer, and I have sold at least 100 of them over the past 14 years. From the 7-1/2 hp Industrial Cabinet Saw to the portable jobsite saw. They are a well designed, trouble free saw. I have also sold Powermatic, Delta, General and several others over the years. In my opinion the Sawstop is a better saw, regardless of the safety mechanism, which by the way works flawless in my experience. I don't have exact records, but I am confident we have heard of at least 5 finger/cut saves from our customers over the years. We have sold them to schools, cabinet shops, homeowners, contractors and businesses. I cannot say enough about the safety feature that is Sawstop. The cartridge is easy to change and costs $69.00 currently. If you want a dado cartridge, that is $89.00.

    The safety mechanism can be easily overridden whenever an operator chooses. This is done on startup, takes a removeable key to achieve and reverts back to a safety state when the saw is turned off. Yes, wood with nails will activate it. Anything that conducts electricity will activate the cartridge, including you. Wet wood "can" activate it. There is a feature that lets you test whether or not something will activate the cartridge.

    Changing a blown cartridge typically takes 1-2 minutes. The blade is typically damaged, but not always. Most of the time one tooth will be slightly bent, maybe broken carbide. I know that some of my customers have had the blades sharpened and reinstalled with no ill effects.

    Sawstop provides excellent service. A customer can call in anytime and talk to a technician. They are very helpful.

    My one complaint when dealing with Sawstop has been their quirky attitude. I have always felt like they talk down to us when we call in. From the receptionist to the sales staff and order processors. They seem to have an air about them that we need them more than they need us. I have always said that attitude starts at the top and is pervasive throughout the company.

    Sawstop would be my choice if I was purchasing. Even taking away the brake mechanism, it is a better saw than the competition. Adding the brake is just icing on the cake.

    BTW - Festool purchased them this year. Good things are forthcoming!!!

    Mike

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    We have one in the wood shop at work. I don't work in that shop, but I've listened to the complaints/praises of it. It is a very good saw until you cut wet wood, or if an aluminum chip accidentally makes its way onto the board. We have zero finger saves from the safety mechanism, but have lost several blades and cartridges to the safety mechanism firing for no reason. It doesn't just need a cartridge replacement when it trips. You also have the blade buried in aluminum blocks to deal with. I'm sure it's possible to save the blade, but we've never tried.

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    Toolmonger- I don’t have time right now but want to respond Re- problem with saw.
    Cliff notes: I saw this one guy fighting with beat up poorly maintained saw.
    I am not saying this represents a problem with company/tech which is why I am looking to see how these saws are doing in real shops.

    Re - aluminum.
    I will not be cutting aluminum sheet on saw but have a metal lathe and will nearby in my small shop.
    Chips tend to be around...

    I have just one Festool in shop- the fantastic Domino.
    I think the Festool buyout will be all for the good.
    I am wondering if this leads to a Euro type slider being offered??

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    Over the years I have heard that they are 'good saws'

    I have often wondered, why not a regular EM brake? Why destructive?

    Even the same mechanism with friction material

    Anyway, I use my Unisaw to cut aluminum, so it wouldn't do me any good anyway

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    I picked up one from a friend that had two last spring. He has replaced the mechanism twice, once to save a finger and once due to wet wood. Every time it activates you should plan on replacing the stop mech and the blade. They 'supposedly' do not play well with blades that have irregular or skip tooth patterns. There are two stops, one for 10" blades and one for dado cutters. The stop devices arn't particularly expensive ~$65 +/-. As mentioned above it is simple and fast to change parts after a crash. I have only used it a few times due to back problems but it worked as well as any I have used.


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    Bosch had an interesting contractors saw that used airbag technology with a reversible cartridge that had you running in 60 seconds, and didn't damage the blade. Gass, who patented the system, is a patent attorney by trade and filed a forest of continuation, abandoned applications, and provisional applications. I started to look at it once and my eyes glazed over.

    There's a lot of prior art, but there must be something unique in the claims that cover that. Bosch's lawyers couldn't work their way around the patents, although they must have believed they could when they introduced the Reaxx saw. The ruling

    The Commission has determined that the appropriate remedy is a limited exclusion order prohibiting the entry of table saws incorporating active injury mitigation technology and components thereof that infringe claims 8 and 12 of the ’927 patent and claims 1, 6, 16, and 17 of the ’279 patent, and an order that Robert Bosch Tool Corp. cease and desist from importing, selling, marketing, advertising, distributing, offering for sale, transferring (except for exportation), or soliciting U.S. agents or distributors of 2 imported table saws incorporating active injury mitigation technology and components thereof that infringe claims 8 and 12 of U.S. Patent the ’927 patent and claims 1, 6, 16, and 17 of the ’279 patent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    I am wondering if this leads to a Euro type slider being offered??
    A local distributer had a unit with a sliding attachment that looked pretty nice. If I buy another saw, it will be a Sawstop.

    Edit: This was a sliding cross cut attachment versus a sliding table, which after another read I think that is what you are referring to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    Thanks D
    If I had employee’s there would already be one in the shop.
    My question is isn’t if the safety feature is required, just if the saws are proving to be trouble free in owners shops.
    I only played with one at a dealer, They seem to be on par with Unisaws and Powermatic 66. If money and space were no object I would opt for a Euro-saw with an 8-foot slider (Felder, SCMI, Tannewitz just to name a few). The SawStop is not enough of an upgrade from my current 3Hp Unisaw, but if I had no cabinet saw and one showed up for a good price, I would buy it. Based on the build quality, other than any possible quirkiness with the of the safety brake, the SawStop should be no less reliable than any other quality cabinet saw. If the arbor is not bent and the motor is running the the top is not rusted through the saw is servicable. If nothing else you can clean it up and re-sell it


    dee
    ;-D

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    Another saw user with no personal experience with the SawStop; I have simply heard the "horror" stories about the expense of activation, and also the descriptions of the saw as equivalent to a Powermatic 66 or Unisaw. I have pretty much ignored the machine ever since a) I realized I cut so much aluminum on the saw it would be useless to me, and b) the lobbying campaign that almost succeeded in making such a safety feature a mandatory device on new saws sold in this country.

    Having used a tablesaw for the last ~45 years, and still having all my fingers, I thought that making this sort of thing mandatory was a few steps over the line. Whatever that line is. In a shop with employees, these days it might be a different story.

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    And what about kickback? My reading of the statistics is that kickback causes more life threatening and fatal accidents (usually on industrial saws) than contact with the blade (which is of course very very bad.)

    What does the sawstop do for kickback?

    [In jr high watched the shop teacher cut something on a table saw, which bound and kicked back, made a sizeable divot in the steel wall of the building. He very calmly said to us all "that's why you don't stand behind the table saw..." Had that hit a person it could well have caused very serious injury.]

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    MATC (Milwaukee Area Technical College) uses Saw-Stop as their cabinet saw. The slider we use is a Felder.
    Never had issues with the Saw-Stop, but then I use it very sparingly. Seems fine as a cabinet saw though.
    WCTC, who used a local High School's wood shop for their cabinet making class, also use a Saw-Stop.

    I am guessing the decreased chance of accidents and liability is a huge draw for these tech colleges and high schools.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wheels17 View Post
    Gass, who patented the system, is a patent attorney by trade
    Figured that had something to do with it. I had a hard time seeing how such a device could warrant 100 patents.

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    We have two of them in our plastics shop and they are going on 10 years old. We replaced two Unisaws with them and have never had a false trip that I'm aware of. 99% of what they cut is cast acrylic sheet with occasional aluminum sheet, so no wet wood issues that I can comment on. Performance wise no different than the Unisaws. Just another comment- I have had the honor of picking someones finger tip out of the chips on several occasions before we got these saws - that's why we have them.

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    I had to find four fingers in those chips under a saw.
    And then one more when the hospital called because the guy had really wrecked his hand and lost all five and I had missed one.
    It was sobering.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dcsipo View Post
    I would buy it. If the arbor is not bent and the motor is running the the top is not rusted through the saw is servicable. If nothing else you can clean it up and re-sell it


    dee
    ;-D
    For the money I would have done right just buying.
    I drove three hours to pick up on a saw listed as very little use.
    It put me off to find a beat up machine.
    At this point I am thinking just buying new and not screwing around.

    I am going out to a dealer today to chat them up.
    I have a Biesemeyer setup on current saw so will try to see if they will sell me a saw with no fence- not bloody likely but that could pull the cost down a few hundred.

    Edit- I spent an hour at the dealer going over the Industrial version Sawstop today.
    I believe for the time being I am going to install a riving knife and guard to the old Unisaw I have in shop and police up safety that way.
    I also purchased one of the old Robland heavy cast iron slider attachments to help with squaring moderate sized sheet panels.

    Gentlemen, thank you.
    Last edited by Trboatworks; 12-16-2018 at 03:32 PM.

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    Late to the thread but I have one and a good friend has one. Both are the industrial version. They're great. I would buy again. If you have space, a European-style saw is also very safe and has some advantages. Depends on your needs.


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