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  1. #21
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    I follow this repair right up to the point of trying to replace the vernier over the repaired section. I understand completely replacing the vernier but how are you going just replace the vernier over the repair and have it match the original in color, texture and grain?

    Tom

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    [QUOTE=TDegenhart;3352474]I follow this repair right up to the point of trying to replace the vernier over the repaired section . . ./QUOTE] Think there might be veneer intact on the broken piece - with a bit of artful staining planned at the break? As with others, I'll be watching how this turns out. Not something I'd be confident pulling off, but I also don't have a fraction of the experience of Tr or henrya in doing this sort of thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    Now where is the fun in that.

    The repair is less expensive than factory new or shop formed back.
    Hardly marginal as the repair will be stronger than the original and keeps the chair original with the Brazilian rosewood matched to rest.
    What’s in it for me- I am too busy to turn around and spit but have always enjoyed some work outside of “run of mill”.
    At that I would turn this away if off the street but for a long term client- I am happy to turn my practiced hand to the work for them.
    Fair enough
    Another way to approach this is to glue it up as you suggest, then use a long radius scarf cut along the axis of the break on the inside, from almost through to feather edge a few inchs out from the break. Then bag the veneer patch pieces in on a curve, and resurface flush with the inside and put one more veneer over the scarf and rest of the back, on the inside. I like your idea of using a carbon fiber first laminate, as it will go very close to the outside and help prevent the back from breaking again if it receives a load that puts the out side in tension- like the chair falling over.

    "This chair is classic enough and breaks here often enough that there is a shop which is advertising ‘correct’ repair." Hmmmm. What type of ply core is that? Bending poplar or some such?

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  5. #24
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    I don’t know what the ply is- thin, about .33” under the finish veneer.
    The chair is celebrated for its tech and design and comes with “was a product of years of development” in its bio.
    The first thing I will do is cut out a bit of that ply and sus out what the grain orientation and species.
    From what I am reading the chair stood the test of time as they say.
    The big vulnerability is the bonded rubber shock mounts which tend to fail with age.

    Wood guys/cabinet makers such as myself who spend enough decades around boats tend to get their design sense contaminated by marine engineering.
    Every loaded panel I see is compromised of a core and structural skins.
    “I see what the problem is with this Eames bloke, he over loaded the rosewood skin laminates....”

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    Quote Originally Posted by TDegenhart View Post
    I follow this repair right up to the point of trying to replace the vernier over the repaired section. I understand completely replacing the vernier but how are you going just replace the vernier over the repair and have it match the original in color, texture and grain?

    Tom
    After gluing up the break, the first step is to remove all of the old ply right up to just under that surface veneer.
    During final glue-up, that veneer will be bonded to new work.

    Think of it this way- if I am building a laminate in a mold the first scrim might be onion skin fine carbon cloth or even a paint film sprayed into the mold.
    It will have no meaning that there was a break in that veneer as I am just thinking of this as a pigment film.
    The only real trick to this work is separating the veneer from the old ply.
    At this point I am relying on the Zimmermann profile sander and it’s .03mm accuracies lol.
    When I set up this work the chair back will be bonded to the mold segment of that corner and stay there till pulled as a fully finished new corner laminate.

    Keeping that outside veneer intact and getting it bonded to the new work is the only real ‘trick’ to getting this done- otherwise it’s just a joinery exercise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    .....it’s just a joinery exercise.
    My shop mascot is mumbling in the background:
    “Yeah- whatever you say buddy.”
    “What about cutting that 12:1 scarf through a 6” radius corner in .3” of material?”
    “What about getting a laminate schedule to hold that radius and still be worth anything carried just half way through that corner?”
    “Ya think about that you big dope?”
    “Easy to talk a big game- let’s see this actually happen”..

  9. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    My shop mascot is mumbling in the background:
    “Yeah- whatever you say buddy.”
    “What about cutting that 12:1 scarf through a 6” radius corner in .3” of material?”
    “What about getting a laminate schedule to hold that radius and still be worth anything carried just half way through that corner?”
    “Ya think about that you big dope?”
    “Easy to talk a big game- let’s see this actually happen”..
    Your mascot called me on the phone. Needs a counseling referral.

    BTW, what is a Zimmerman profile sander?

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    Don't know about a joinery exercise, but keeping with the boat-building theme, seems (to me) like a straightforward cold-molding exercise.

    As has been said, the two 'tricks' are:

    1) achieve a decent structurally strong scarf along a curved surface- but at least you've got the existing plys to help you keep track of how your curved scarf is forming as you sand away. They'll reveal topographically how even your scarf is forming.

    2) how to aesthetically deal with the rosewood surface ply. Museum-quality...you'd want to preserve as much original material as possible and having the glue-joint of the thin scarf end be at least noticeable would be preferred (as it would indicate the repair). Home-use quality...you'd want to replace the entire outer ply so the back of the chair looks original.

    Horses for courses.

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  12. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by stoneaxe View Post

    BTW, what is a Zimmerman profile sander?
    Ha- so glad you asked.
    Just about the nicest ribbon sander one could dream up.
    Back in the day they were the world standard- built primarily for pattern makers shops and so dear that only this trade cashed out for them.
    They come to market now as pattern shops close which is how I got my hands on this one.

    5fe7f27b-18c8-4d24-974a-a893283bea47.jpg

    The platens are 14” tall and the machines come with a set of eight in various widths and face profiles- flat and convex.
    These are capable of very high standard work in sanding deep profiles square or to selected angles.
    ‘Zimmermann’ means woodworker in German and as far as I can tell the firm manufactured high standard machines all primarily for the pattern makers trade- band saws, wood lathes sanders etc.
    They are not common in the States.
    The pattern shop this came out of had a perfectly beautiful Zimmermann pattern makers lathe with all the accessories on the block- sold for a paltry $1200 if I recall...
    Virtually free for that class of machine.
    But... too much for my shop which needs nothing more than the small wood lathe I have.
    Perhaps true for many shops hence the lack of interest..

    I will make up the mold segments and do all the fitting work for this repair on the profile sander.

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  14. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    Ha- so glad you asked.
    Just about the nicest ribbon sander one could dream up.
    Back in the day they were the world standard- built primarily for pattern makers shops and so dear that only this trade cashed out for them.
    They come to market now as pattern shops close which is how I got my hands on this one.

    5fe7f27b-18c8-4d24-974a-a893283bea47.jpg

    The platens are 14” tall and the machines come with a set of eight in various widths and face profiles- flat and convex.
    These are capable of very high standard work in sanding deep profiles square or to selected angles.
    ‘Zimmermann’ means woodworker in German and as far as I can tell the firm manufactured high standard machines all primarily for the pattern makers trade- band saws, wood lathes sanders etc.
    They are not common in the States.
    The pattern shop this came out of had a perfectly beautiful Zimmermann pattern makers lathe with all the accessories on the block- sold for a paltry $1200 if I recall...
    Virtually free for that class of machine.
    But... too much for my shop which needs nothing more than the small wood lathe I have.
    Perhaps true for many shops hence the lack of interest..

    I will make up the mold segments and do all the fitting work for this repair on the profile sander.
    Cool tool! I had never seen one. The platens run vertical behind the belt? Post up a few pic's if you have the inclination, when you are doing the repair. Curious as to how the belt tracking is done against a curved platen.

  15. #31
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    how does the repair look?
    did you glass or carbon fiber under the outer vernier? was this reinforcement on inside and outside of curve?

  16. #32
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    I have been BURIED in normal run of mill work.
    This repair is still in the wings waiting for a bit slower time.
    Terms are just that with the client thankfully- for me it’s the sort of project to be enjoyed not slammed out the door.


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