Endless mistakes, wood slide tool drawers :)

Back in January I tried to get a jump on my wife's Feb B-day and make her a utility tool and supply drawer stack for the sewing machine.



Again, this was not intended to be "styled". Just a quick, solid utilitatian box set made of Baltic birch ply with wood slides, based on a type of commodity stacking shelf units I make. The drawer size, aprox 20" x 20" ID, was based loosely on an arrangement of cigar boxes that a local merchant saves for her, for dividers. Of course a close fit would be more rectangular, but I made them square so the boxes could be oriented either direction inside, and so that I had choice for drawer joint orientation, and less complexity of parts while building them.



"Many" years ago I made the curved nosings for the theatre at the National Archives, out of Bloodwood. So lots of long curves, yielding lots of long slightly curved one edge, triangles & 1/2 moons of "scrap" bloodwood. With a 2" nosing curve cut from a long 8" or 10" wide plank, on a volume basis there is often more "scrap" left, than product. It gets used from time to time over the years for various utility items that require a hard, dense (does not float)slightly oily wood with a nice smell. The downside to Bloodwood is it's gnarly, high stress, unstable nature, so best used in thin sections.

My biggest error was to automatically make the box 1-1/16" wider than the drawers as would be common for almost any mechanical slide

Even before I actually discovered that (box on one side of the shop, drawers on the other) my next error was trying to take a production approach to cutting the grooves in the plywood drawers to inlay the slides: too much blowout at the corners with a dado set. So I decided to run the groove the whole way 'round each drawer, choose the best front, and add an accent strip to fill it.

The discovery that the drawers were much too small was the most devastating, and that will explain why the slides are so wide; and hence thicker and buttressed to the drawer sides for strength. It was NOT a design intention.



With tough wood, and relatively light contents in the drawers, the action is "effortless" compared to ball bearing slides, and almost full extension.





I did intend to make small knob or drop pulls for each drawer, but my wife would not let me, at least for now. Her fingers are much smaller than mine and can pull under the drawers.

smt

Your wifes utilitarian approach to the drawer fronts results in a clean appearance and may be more aesthetic to some...(read me). Dare I say she has good taste. I'm glad my wife doesn't frequent the site or you may have had a commission you hadn't counted on.
Joe

Endless mistakes? Nah, not really. A professional knows how to hide them. You did good. I thought I made a mistake once............but I was wrong.

I really like the look resulting from the gap around all the drawers. Even if not a design "ideal" (the gaps allow dust and such to enter), it gives the completed cabinet a great sense of depth, an almost sculptural look. Nice choice of woods too!

Very nice work, stephen!

How does one cut all those finger joints in BB ply without a lot of blowout and chipping?

That has always been the issue for me!

Mike

I would minimize blowout with a backer board.

stephen thomas said:

Back in January I tried to get a jump on my wife's Feb B-day and make her a utility tool and supply drawer stack for the sewing machine.

View attachment 164562

Again, this was not intended to be "styled". Just a quick, solid utilitatian box set made of Baltic birch ply with wood slides, based on a type of commodity stacking shelf units I make. The drawer size, aprox 20" x 20" ID, was based loosely on an arrangement of cigar boxes that a local merchant saves for her, for dividers. Of course a close fit would be more rectangular, but I made them square so the boxes could be oriented either direction inside, and so that I had choice for drawer joint orientation, and less complexity of parts while building them.

View attachment 164565

"Many" years ago I made the curved nosings for the theatre at the National Archives, out of Bloodwood. So lots of long curves, yielding lots of long slightly curved one edge, triangles & 1/2 moons of "scrap" bloodwood. With a 2" nosing curve cut from a long 8" or 10" wide plank, on a volume basis there is often more "scrap" left, than product. It gets used from time to time over the years for various utility items that require a hard, dense (does not float)slightly oily wood with a nice smell. The downside to Bloodwood is it's gnarly, high stress, unstable nature, so best used in thin sections.

My biggest error was to automatically make the box 1-1/16" wider than the drawers as would be common for almost any mechanical slide

Even before I actually discovered that (box on one side of the shop, drawers on the other) my next error was trying to take a production approach to cutting the grooves in the plywood drawers to inlay the slides: too much blowout at the corners with a dado set. So I decided to run the groove the whole way 'round each drawer, choose the best front, and add an accent strip to fill it.

The discovery that the drawers were much too small was the most devastating, and that will explain why the slides are so wide; and hence thicker and buttressed to the drawer sides for strength. It was NOT a design intention.

View attachment 164563

With tough wood, and relatively light contents in the drawers, the action is "effortless" compared to ball bearing slides, and almost full extension.

View attachment 164564

View attachment 164566

I did intend to make small knob or drop pulls for each drawer, but my wife would not let me, at least for now. Her fingers are much smaller than mine and can pull under the drawers.

smt

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If you did not brag about your screw ups, nobody would notice them. Just sayin

dee
;-D

My chiropractor says all the dope smacking is causing problems in my neck. Common condition amongst woodworkers apparently...

Just curious Stephen, how would you do this if given another chance?

1) For a utilitarian chest, that's lovely.
2) About 30 years ago I made a folding gateleg table for my sister, (just barely) small enough to ship UPS, and committed every conceivable error and several I had not previously considered possible. I felt shame for making so many mistakes, and mildly smug for being able to fix most of them. My mother now has the table, and I mostly just feel embarrassed when I see it.
2a) After 30 years, cherry and Australian lacewood take on pretty much the same color.
3) A real sewing machine. I like it! I keep a Juki 8700 in my dining room.

How does one cut all those finger joints in BB ply without a lot of blowout and chipping?

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One of the efficiencies of the design intent was that all the drawer sides, all 48 pieces, are cut with the same joint. Basically I made 56 pieces, used the 2 worst for consumable backers, and chose the best 12 drawers out of 13 possible. (The 13th drawer, jammed together but never even glued, can be seen collecting oak plugs, in my post about that job). Then I machined them on the pin router with a sliding jig (Panhans shaper table, but it could have been wood and shop made). The tool was a stack of 1/4" wing cutters. IOW, one pass through to machine the end of 4 sides. I have done similar on the tenoner, but in this case the pin router was easier/faster to set up.

(Perhaps) to clarify: A stack of 4 sides + backer was clamped to a rail on a sliding sled against a stop, with a consumable backer as the exit side of the cut, and run through a gang tool on the pin router. After each cut was made, the end of the consumable backer was trimmed off, and it was advanced flush for the next cut. (next stack or other end of stack of sides).

It would have been possible to stack as many as 24 pieces on the sled, but less easy to keep them aligned both ways. Which is to say that the time to make better fixturing so that large stacks would be convenient was better spent merely running the job off and moving on, in this case.

Just curious Stephen, how would you do this if given another chance?

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Richard, I'm sort of intrigued by how it turned out, and wife (and son especially) really like it. But instead of a 2 - 3 day project, it ended up being a 5 - 7 day project. I used to like & make curvilinear stuff; but as i age, the severity of straight, repetitive lines is taking on some appeal, at least for production.

If I was going to use a wood like bloodwood as an accent, (& did not have a rather large "free" pile of it anyway ) I would most likely make the drawers sides out of solid wood, too, instead of plywood. In fact, after making these, I sort of decided using plywood instead of solid birch or maple, did not really save much if anything. OTOH, the sides can be quite thin with ply, and might have to be a little thicker in solid wood to avoid weakness where the slide was ploughed in. Not sure. But again, the material savings was probably meagre.

Then it gets complicated: with solid wood drawers, is it an acceptable piece if the case is slabs of self edge russian birch, or not?

Things probably came out one of the best possible ways, assuming Baltic/Russian birch self-edge plywood as the given material. Taking what resulted and considering repeating it gets complicated, philosophically.

smt

In my experience, when it comes to work for the household, "done and installed" trumps any kind of design or artistic statement. Boy do they love it when it's actually finished, no matter what it looks like!

I think plywood sides are just fine. I was more wondering about the slides, how thick and wide you would have made them? I've seen some drawers where a plywood bottom overhanging the sides serves as the slides. Have to glue it well to the underneath of the drawer, and maybe reinforce at the very back to handle torque when extended. But otherwise very efficient.

Edit - now I'm thinking those bottoms were 1/4" tempered masonite...

Stephen,
All that talk of mistakes doesn't explain why you didn't just cut the carcase down to the correct size?
That innocent chest of drawers now has a nice story, not to mention it is finished!
It looks great and functions well, wife is happy, brownie points galore!

MM

Stephen -

I really like the looks of it - gives me a couple ideas. I have the same task for my wife I've been ducking for too many years. Trouble is it will be made of hickory - from the tree that fell on her sewing room, poking a hole in the roof. I know it will be a bear to work with, but it just seems appropriate in this instance. Turned into lumber with that in mind.

And I'm with Ray as to 'mistakes'. One of the two people who taught me the most about wood working (and lots of other things) was the old time one man general contractor who I worked for summers all the way through high school, college and grad school. He site built all the kitchen and bath cabinets, etc. As he told me, the only difference between a good carpenter and a bad one was that the good one knew how to cover up any mistakes he made. Last house he ever built was the one we live in - and I still smile at the couple things I see that I know nobody else in the world does.

Dale

Stephen, Nice work! As I've heard it said: It not a screwup, it's a feature.
John

mister honey said:

Very nice work, stephen!

How does one cut all those finger joints in BB ply without a lot of blowout and chipping?

That has always been the issue for me!

Mike

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As said above a backer board works. you can also use sacrificial blade inserts on a table saw or last case but really tedious is to score the cut line first. You're still working with a very delicate edge even when you get the blowout defeated though.

Very nice work stephen BTW,
Matt

Stephen, I'm wondering do your drawers have stops so they can't be accidentally pulled out too far? If so what did you do to make this happen?

Stephen, I'm wondering do your drawers have stops so they can't be accidentally pulled out too far? If so what did you do to make this happen?

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The interesting thing about wooden slide drawers that I've found is that they are practically self-adjusting for load and depth, as far as how far they pull out. They glide quite freely, better than BB glides, for the first 2/3 or 3/4 of total travel. Then depending on weight and length, they slow down and gradually stop.

Another "feature" of the ones used in this and some other applications, is the ability to easily (immediately) pull them out as trays.

I can think of several ways to positively stop them, and perhaps it would be good in some instances, so a person could not pull them out 95% and leave them hang & overstress or break the parts. But I've never done it.

I started making drawers with wooden strip runners ca.1976; but am not (originally was not ) primarily a furniture or cabinet maker. My focus was on millwork. So intermittently make a pile of drawers, then can go a long time and not make more. For millwork, often including stuff like built in file units, the functionality is usually better with mechanical, ball bearing, over-travel type commercial glides with strong, dovetailed boxes and overlay fronts.

smt

Stephen, it's the same with runner/kicker drawers. They basically jam when the support surfaces get really short. But it's sure possible for a determined user to pull them all the way out. Just a little more, a bit more... ooops!!!

I'm trying to make a cabinet with no frames between the drawers, could you share any methods to stopping the drawers from coming all the way out? But still be removable if needed?

I'm trying to make a cabinet with no frames between the drawers, could you share any methods to stopping the drawers from coming all the way out? But still be removable if needed?

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Belg-

As stated, I'm not the best to ask because i have never quite seen the need. But in ruminations, some of the vague ideas that have come up are outlined below. Perhaps someone who has done it can post photos, or link to articles on the subject.

A possibility is to inset a flat wooden spring in a plough in the side, with a sneck on it, that will catch in a gain or protrusion in the case side. The flat part needs to extend forward enough so that gripping the drawer sides and pressing each side spring with a thumb or finger to release, is convenient. If the sneck drags on the case side, it will wear and the drawer will not pull so nicely so either the case side has to be ploughed/dadoed; or the spring set in a deeper plough in the drawer side that will clear a protrusion from the case near the front but catch the sneck.

To reduce the extra plough in the case side, the sneck could be on a teetering part let into the side of the back of the drawer, that hits a slight protrusion in the case front, forcing the sneck into the gain. Then it would not drag. The teetering parts could also be located under the drawer so that the sides of the drawer did not have to have extra space between them and the case.

For some drawers that were either quite deep (long extension) or "large" in the sense that they would probably be used/filled in a way that might be heavy; I have made the backs inset toward the front from the extreme back ends of the sides. So there is anywhere from an inch to maybe 3" of dead space when the drawer is fully closed, but the rails extend full length. This gives some safety margin and less encouragement to try to pull the drawer out too far. it also gives an area behind the drawer into which a teetering or other simple weighted mechanism could be contrived.

smt