glue advice please.

stoneaxe · Apr 15, 2022

We are laminating a bunch of sapele staves 1/2" x 3" x 8' into 1 1/2" thick stiles.

I have been using titebond 1 with good success, but the short open time means a lot of hustle when gluing three or four assembles at a time.
The titebond 3 says it has a longer open time, but also a longer clamp time- plus it is new to me, and often new products do not live up to the hype.

any advice?

richard newman · Apr 15, 2022

Titebond Extend gives you more assembly time, about twice as long. I use it for laminating banjo rims. If you need a lot more time, you could try a urea formaldehyde glue, like Plastic Resin Glue, but the setting time is much longer, and they usually require 70 degree temp room. I have no experience with TB3.

Most people are not aware that some time ago Franklin changed the names of their retail line of Titebond glues, they are not the same as the industrial products in 5 and 55 gal drums. I spoke to one of their chemists to clear this up.

"Original TB" is actually Hi-Tack Assembly glue, a high solids, fast setting glue, with good gap filling properties.
"TB Extend" is Regular Titebond
"TB 2 & 3" are Multibond variants, catalyzed PVA glues often used in hot presses.

Not that this matters to anyone who has not used the industrial product, but it was sure interesting to me once I stopped buying 5 gallon pails.

stoneaxe · Apr 15, 2022

richard newman said:
Titebond Extend gives you more assembly time, about twice as long. I use it for laminating banjo rims. If you need a lot more time, you could try a urea formaldehyde glue, like Plastic Resin Glue, but the setting time is much longer, and they usually require 70 degree temp room. I have no experience with TB3.

Most people are not aware that some time ago Franklin changed the names of their retail line of Titebond glues, they are not the same as the industrial products in 5 and 55 gal drums. I spoke to one of their chemists to clear this up.

"Original TB" is actually Hi-Tack Assembly glue, a high solids, fast setting glue, with good gap filling properties.
"TB Extend" is Regular Titebond
"TB 2 & 3" are Multibond variants, catalyzed PVA glues often used in hot presses.

Not that this matters to anyone who has not used the industrial product, but it was sure interesting to me once I stopped buying 5 gallon pails.

Sounds like the "extend" is what I need. Now to source it.

stephen thomas · Apr 15, 2022

I've preferred "Extend" for some 40 years, but don't think it is as "extended" as it was originally/late 70's - early 80's?. Seems to have changed about 20 - 25 years ago. Or maybe i got slower.

I researched Extend in the early 80's, at that time it was the strongest of all the formulations, as well. But they did not make type 3 then. I have used type 3 off and on only since a few years ago. Not a bad glue. But i use a lot of rollers, brushes, and the dosicols for bisuits and dowels, and don't want a glue that is harder to clean than Extend or starts to behave differently in the roller pan over a long day. I do think it would be a good product for your app, so long as you get comfortable with it on some test runs. I'd never use it for "waterproof" or even routine water exposure app (exterior work). I use WEST epoxy for those, and any time a very long assembly period is necessary.

How are you clamping the the lay-ups?
Firehose press is almost ideal for stacks of long thin stuff, & sure is a wrist-saver when you get older.

smt

CalG · Apr 15, 2022

stoneaxe said:
We are laminating a bunch of sapele staves 1/2" x 3" x 8' into 1 1/2" thick stiles.

I have been using titebond 1 with good success, but the short open time means a lot of hustle when gluing three or four assembles at a time.
The titebond 3 says it has a longer open time, but also a longer clamp time- plus it is new to me, and often new products do not live up to the hype.

any advice?

Are you using a brush or roller to apply the glue? A bit of set up while open can make the clamping less slippery, but I'm not in your shoes to make a call on what is working.

What are the problems that make you scurry? I always liked it when the pieces needed a firm push to move. Not "contact cement" bonded, but damn sticky!

Rocketdc · Apr 16, 2022

As a word of caution and a side note regarding titebond 3, there's been a few threads on entry door glue failures. When the door is subjected to direct sunlight the temperature can increase dramatically to the point where the titebond 3 loses a significant amount of strength. I believe it starts degrading around 150 degrees and can lose up to 80 percent of its strength around 180 degrees.

richard newman · Apr 16, 2022

stephen thomas said:
I've preferred "Extend" for some 40 years, but don't think it is as "extended" as it was originally/late 70's - early 80's?. Seems to have changed about 20 - 25 years ago. Or maybe i got slower.

I'm sure you've gotten slower Stephen, but the glue has gotten faster too

As I remember, back in the 70's, Titebond had 3 versions:

Slow set, which is probably what you were remembering
Regular, which is now labeled Extend
Titebond 50, which was fast setting

They later came out with a thixotropic formulation, which would not run on vertical surfaces. I don't think any of these were available retail, only thru industrial distributors, 5 gal & up. I bought them all, til I got tired of throwing away expired half filled pails.

I just use the extend for everything, never in a hurry anymore, glad to hear it's also the strongest! I buy gallons from Amazon or Zoro.

CalG makes some good points! I'd always rather spend more time in prep, and have the glue up go quickly & smoothly. Ironically, one way to extend assembly time is to use a really thick spread on both surfaces, but it sure does make the parts want to skate around. Another thing that Franklin used to recommend was to lightly sponge the glue surfaces with water, and let it just flash off. Slows down the thickening of the glue at the wood surface. Had completely forgotten that trick, this thread jarred my memory!

stoneaxe · Apr 16, 2022

richard newman said:
I'm sure you've gotten slower Stephen, but the glue has gotten faster too

As I remember, back in the 70's, Titebond had 3 versions:

Slow set, which is probably what you were remembering
Regular, which is now labeled Extend
Titebond 50, which was fast setting

They later came out with a thixotropic formulation, which would not run on vertical surfaces. I don't think any of these were available retail, only thru industrial distributors, 5 gal & up. I bought them all, til I got tired of throwing away expired half filled pails.

I just use the extend for everything, never in a hurry anymore, glad to hear it's also the strongest! I buy gallons from Amazon or Zoro.

CalG makes some good points! I'd always rather spend more time in prep, and have the glue up go quickly & smoothly. Ironically, one way to extend assembly time is to use a really thick spread on both surfaces, but it sure does make the parts want to skate around. Another thing that Franklin used to recommend was to lightly sponge the glue surfaces with water, and let it just flash off. Slows down the thickening of the glue at the wood surface. Had completely forgotten that trick, this thread jarred my memory!

I usually dampen the surfaces with water, then use a hand roller and tray to apply the glue, drop the staves onto the caul-support assembly and use clamps to pull it up. If I had a piece of fire hose I might build a more involved press.
We don't make these all that often, but lamination is now going to be standard on sapele- the stability is much improved.

Pattnmaker · Apr 21, 2022

We do a lot of laminating up big slabs slabs and a lot of gluing up 2 or 3 layers of plywood. We use the Titebond white glue. It gives us a little more time than the Original and as a bonus it is the cheapest they make.
We do hustle when doing glue ups. We typically pour directly out of the 5 gallon pail and use a piece of masonite with bandsaw cuts every half inch or so to spread the glue.

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