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  1. #21
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    SMT
    Did you use that urethane positive mold to make a sand negative mold which gets destroyed when freeing the casting from the mold?

  2. #22
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    Yes Spud that is how it works

    Stephen that looks like dynacast which can be sanded and we often sand off with the disk sander on smaller patterns. I realize it is a urethane but when I mention urethane I am referring to a urethanes that are like a hard rubber. I forget the shore hardness but it is similar to the material a one piece dead blow hammer is made of. It does not sand very well, it tends to melt if you sand much off. The other way we would route off the larger jobs is to nail and screw rails on either side of the mould. Then we would use a router mounted on a long board riding on the rails. The board was more like a long angle plate so it had little to no flex.

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  4. #23
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    Peter, I can't see why you would have any problems running from a phase converter, the freq is just a motor-generator set. On the other hand, I noticed that Wadkin still makes these as the URF and use a VFD instead. That could be run off single phase, and give you a wide range of variable speed. I think the top speed (24K?) requires 420 cycles, I wonder if that is hard to find in a vfd. The freq is so heavy, maybe you could scrap it to cover the cost of the vfd.

    On the other hand, all this praise of pin routers is making me wonder how I can live without this baby ;-)

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  6. #24
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    Pattnmaker-

    Repro-thane was used because I was significantly modifying my old patterns. After casting these and mounting on a new matchboard, I milled them out from one side to take about 10 lbs. of weight out without using loose cores. I kept selling the old style for specials, but the new style lightweight is easier to use. Anyway, the need to mill it all out and modifiy it was the reason for rigid material. The boxes still exist, so anything could be cast in future, but the foundry went out of business and both of my original patterns are in limbo.







    All mounted up, epoxied down, and pockets milled out from one side to eliminate loose cores





    smt

  7. #25
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    The last picture on this page NFAP - Industrial Patterns is a picture of 2 patterns made with the urethane I am talking about. The black patterns and coreboxes are urethane, it is a rigid pattern material but is very tough partly because it has a little give. These urethanes outlast the hard urethanes like dynacast or repro-thane about 10-1.

    They are particularly good for patterns and coreboxes that get a lot of abuse. I have worked on locomotive truck frames quite a bit and we would make the pattern out of pine faced with cherry and then after about 6 months of the pattern being into production and any major changes had been made we would take moulds off the pattern pieces (very quickly almost always over the weekend) using a urethane similar to the repro-thane. Then we would clean up the mould, make a baltic birch filler and then pour them in urethane. These patterns had guys packing facing sand with shovels and then air rammers on them then a sand slinger packed the rest of the sand on them. The moulders would often accidentally hit the pattern with shovel edges and the urethane would stand up to that. While the pattern was still wood the foundry pattern shop would have 4-6 patternmakers come in every Sunday to do repairs as it was the only time it was available.

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  9. #26
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    Richard, I'm almost committed, It will be good to see the new incarnation of your shop, and perhaps I can time it so that Will is around and get a first hand view of his as well.

    With very little searching, i found this hitachi that goes to 400hz, so the VFD does seem like a good option if the freq ever went bad or I was unhappy with the speeds. XNE1-30

    I'll try to make a decision before the week is out

    Stephen, I tried to send you an email to you @clarityconnect.com address that I had on file, but it seems to be bouncing.

    Pete

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    Most of the vfds I've seen top out at 400hz, the Yaskawa V1000 drives I have are that way. The freq is probably just fine though; hopefully the notes from when we disconnected it for Richard's move are legible I'd be curious how much it would fetch for scrap though, heavy is an understatement for that thing. There's got to be a lot of copper in there.

    Pete you are more than welcome to stop by my shop if you come out to Rochester. At the moment I'm there all day on Fridays, and I could probably sneak out from RIT as long as its not a Wednesday or Thursday.

    Will

  11. #28
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    Pete-
    I'm supposed to work on a bandsaw in Scottsville, and there is now a tracer for my (metal) planer (Thanks, Jason!) in Pittsford that was ruckered there and needs picked up. Wonder if this might all happen at once?

    My email is ehm co fab at g mail dot com

    Thanks!
    smt

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    Since the advantage of an Overhead Pin router is the ability to plunge cut and template work, then what is the benefit of Onsrud's Inverted Pin router? Isn't it just a shaper without the fence?


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    The router in the video you posted plunges and all the work show was template work. Neat machine. The pin is essentially a 360 degree fence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pattnmaker View Post
    The router in the video you posted plunges and all the work show was template work. Neat machine. The pin is essentially a 360 degree fence.
    Well it plunges up so the workpiece is going to obstruct the positioning of the tool bit (for cuts that do not go all the way throught the wood).

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    They mentioned in the video that the tool bit does not plunge upwards till the tip of the guide pin drops into the slot/off the side of the template.

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    I jury-rigged a sort of inverted router on a Delta shaper with collet chuck years ago. No overhead guide, rub collar for pattern guide under the work. The work just dropped slowly onto the rotating cutter by hand (heavy part holding jig, so work didn't grab when cut started).

    For removing material in a pocket the problem we had was knowing if we'd removed all the material since there was no visibility of the cutting. This a problem I never see addressed with the Onsrud inverted machines.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pattnmaker View Post
    They mentioned in the video that the tool bit does not plunge upwards till the tip of the guide pin drops into the slot/off the side of the template.
    Suppose you want to mill out a cavity that is 2 cm deep in a piece that is 4 cm thick; how would you do that with an inverted pin router unless there is a way to set the tool bit to advance up only 2 cm, but then there is the issue of will it cut even though it does not connect to the guide pin.

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    I have only seen the same video you have. I have only used overarm routers with no pin, and have never seen one of these machines. I do suspect you can set the depth of cut with this router.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pattnmaker View Post
    I have only seen the same video you have. I have only used overarm routers with no pin, and have never seen one of these machines. I do suspect you can set the depth of cut with this router.
    Watching the video again, I see that the pin doesn't actually connect to the tool bit in one of those ops. Other workpiece examples should milled out cavities that do not go all the way through the wood.

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    Spud, I am not sure if you are referring to an inverted pin router in the last question, but if so, you need to realize that they have a turret stop on the cutter that you set the depth of cut, it has multiple settings on the same stop that you turn to get different depths of cut.
    Also, the cutter is not ever supposed to come in contact with the guide pin. You set the travel stops so that they do not meet in the middle.

    I still think that the major selling point of an inverted machine is the safety factor. Your template is always covering up the cutter. Standard overarm pin routers can get grabby on certain parts and materials and with the cutter being above the blank - the same place your hands are - if the material gets pulled into the cutter your hands can go with it. I know a few guys that have been injured on one. I think that some good guarding can minimize that from happening, but most people do not make any for their pin routers.

    jason

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    Well, All this talk has me curious, so I committed to Richards machine. I am still not 100% sure how it will fit into my work flow, but am enticed enough to move it into the shop and educate myself first hand. The UR seems like a very compact machine, so I should only dedicate a small amount of space to my education.

    I will post pictures to document the retrieval.

    Pete

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    both the LS manual and the UX jig manual(85 pages) are must reads for any new Wadkin Pin router users. the LS was the most Common of the Pins. Others my find useful information in these manuals as well that don't have this make.


    http://www.rjmachinery.co.uk/manuals...S%20MANUAL.pdf

    http://www.rjmachinery.co.uk/manuals.../UX%20JIGS.pdf

    jack
    English machines

  23. #40
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    Hello Jack!

    Welcome to the board and thanks for the wadkin links.

    Pete


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