What's new
What's new

Replacing babbitt bearing on edge sander

Rocketdc

Aluminum
Joined
May 24, 2020
I've got an Oakley H5 edge sander that has a loose babbit bearing around the oscillating mechanism shaft in the cast iron frame. It looks like the bearing will have to be melted out and poured in place which I've never attempted before. I've found anecdotal comments online about the steps involved, but none regarding this specific machine nor do I know if the information I've encountered is accurate.

Has anyone attempted this or familiar with the process? Some basic questions I had were how to identify the right babbitt alloy? After the old one is melted out do I need to tin the cast iron where it contacts the babbitt? I would assume the machine will have to be tilted on its side to pour the molten babbitt or is there a way to dam the opening and pour it with the machine upright?
 
I've got an Oakley H5 edge sander that has a loose babbit bearing around the oscillating mechanism shaft in the cast iron frame. It looks like the bearing will have to be melted out and poured in place which I've never attempted before. I've found anecdotal comments online about the steps involved, but none regarding this specific machine nor do I know if the information I've encountered is accurate.

Has anyone attempted this or familiar with the process? Some basic questions I had were how to identify the right babbitt alloy? After the old one is melted out do I need to tin the cast iron where it contacts the babbitt? I would assume the machine will have to be tilted on its side to pour the molten babbitt or is there a way to dam the opening and pour it with the machine upright?

There are numerous instructional vids on youtube, some better than others. It has been a while since I researched this, iirc you want a tin based babbitt, not a lead based babbitt, but do your own research. Once you decide the type, you might try searching ebay and looking for name brand ingots of the right composition, not sure about today, but it used to be more affordable there. You can melt out the old babbitt and reuse in the melt for new. Its not a terribly hard process, if you screw up melt it out and try again.
 
I've looked at some of the YouTube videos which helps understand parts of the process, but I haven't seen any that detailed how to handle pouring a bearing into the machine body which I think is the only way to do it on this machine.

I'm not sure what the technical term is for this style babbitt bearing. I took some pictures, I'm trying to figure out how to upload them.
 
I've got an Oakley H5 edge sander that has a loose babbit bearing around the oscillating mechanism shaft in the cast iron frame

Before making any comments, let me be sure i understand the bearing and its function.

Is it the (non-visible) bearing for the rocking mechanism, in the last photo?
IOW, not a bearing for a rotating "high speed" work spindle?

Thanks!
smt
 
Before making any comments, let me be sure i understand the bearing and its function.

Is it the (non-visible) bearing for the rocking mechanism, in the last photo?
IOW, not a bearing for a rotating "high speed" work spindle?

Thanks!
smt

Exactly! It's the bearing just to the right of the access panel on the rear of the machine that allows the oscillating shaft to rock back and forth, not high speed at all. That one in particular is the most compromised of the bunch. I added the other pics to show the various contact points of how that whole oscillating armature is tied into the cast iron frame with the babbitt bearings.
 
Great!

I've scraped Babbitt bearings for spindles, but as other mentioned, it was always easy to remove a shim, scrape, refit, better than new!

For your installation, I'd remove the part, bore it so the axis was true (presumably perpendicular?) to the arm, and install a new shaft and a bronze bushing in each end. Pack the middle with waste and keep it oiled. If possible, i might find a dowel pin for the shaft (hard) & use 954 bearing bronze. (Use 932 if you can't install a hardened pin) I personally don't like oilite and would not consider it crush resistant enough for the app. Add a drip feed oiler, or at least a cup that can be oiled at every use and Babbitt or bronze will last longer.

One reason to use Babbitt is that the part(s) can be aligned with nil or mediocre machining, and then poured with a smoked dummy shaft in place. IOW, in factories in certain places and certain eras, it was fast & yielded "precision" results without precision effort or machinery. If you choose to re-pour Babbitt, it will be necessary to align & dam the parts "perfectly" either in the machine, or in a shop made fixture.

You could even bore it for cheap ball bearings, but not sure they would be good with a short recip motion where sawdust and grit are a factor. A down-side to ball bearings there is that they could seize and spin in the bores or gall on the shaft for a while before anyone noticed, ruining the replaceability factor.

smt
 
Stephen,

I like your idea to replace the shaft and add bronze bushings instead. The existing babbitt is poured within the cast iron hub which is part of the machine frame. I'm assuming the bronze bushing wouldn't fit snuggly in the cast iron hub, is there a way to shim it in place? I'm not sure I'd be able to bore the cast iron hub to fit the bushing since it's part of the machine frame.

Thanks
-Pete
 
I hate to sound like a broken record, but have you checked on the OWWM site? There may well be someone who's done exactly this on a machine like yours, and certainly plenty of people who've poured babbitt in similar situations. For me, they are the go to for specific woodworking machine info.

I've participated (as on onlooker) in one babbitt pouring adventure - for a 16" jointer. Didn't turn out well at all, lots of porosity and voids. Was the first time for everyone involved, kinda humbling, but reversible of course. The owner moved across the country, not sure if he's tried again since.

on edit - I wonder if some of the members who frequent the General forum here might have experience with this. Maybe some of the older guys. I bet Thermite would chime in...
 
You will have to clean out the babbitt and verify whether the bore is is round (bored) or merely as cast. Then also determine whether it is aligned properly.

If the holes are round, parallel, and in line, just make the bushings for a light press fit and perhaps add loctite. Then ream through for your chosen shaft, and done.

If the holes are aligned but not round, you may have to borrow a mag drill and bore them. If they are not aligned, then boring or line boring will be necessary.

Or drop back to pouring Babbitt. Especially if the holes are rough and have intentional keys. Put a dummy shaft in, smoke it, align it with wood fixturing & clamps, dam it, and pour it. Then replace with the real thing.

It boils down to what is easiest for your equipment and experience.

I would probably still bore it, myself. But the equipment to do so is here in the shop.

It might be worth asking first: Are the loose babbitts causing problems with the machine operation? If they were "tight" would the bores still be ok for the function? If that is so, maybe dis-assemble things leaving the babbitts in place (unless they drop out?) & see what you can do to rinse around them with carbon tet, trichloroethane, or similar carcingen :) & then inject full of a dense WEST/filler mix, Loctite Stud & Bearing mount, or JB Weld, and let it set up.

Bearings have also been created in WEST/graphite mix or mounted (potted) in that or JB Weld & others, as well.

smt

PS where are you in MD? There used to be an active tractor group, probably with babbitt experience. Someone in PATINA probably has the experience or knows a connection. I've been away for 26 years though still work down there at times. Up here, our local machinist group has experience, but that is little avail to you. Dave posts some of his experiments on line, on his You Tube videos. (steamshop dave)
 
Richard -

I arranged that haul of machines poached from MD. They had belonged to another shop over the line in Fairfield, when i had my shop down there. The old guy, Helmet was asomething of a character, and though i never personally met him, employees of mine had worked for him and vice-versa. My BIL was his long term employee who was supposed to have dibs on the shop, but that didn't happen when it closed for years after the owners death. The family finally called another acquaintance to bulldoze it and haull the machines for scrap. That guy (also somewhat related) made a mutual friend aware of the hoard, who called me.

I knew your guys were looking particularly the one who needed the planer. He knew Byron who needed the 16" jointer. etc. I needed 4, 4' x 8' carriage house doors delivered very near to where the machines had been moved. So 3 of us rented a truck, moved my doors, and they got some machines an tooling.

Whew!

I didn't know Byron moved away?

smt
 
Richard,
I was rehabbing this machine a couple years ago and remember searching and posting on OWWM and didn't find any specific information to the Oakley babbitt bearings and don't remember getting any responses and stopped checking the site. I had to wrap things up since the machine parts were scattered all over the shop and I couldn't get any other work done. I was planning to relocate to a bigger shop this year, but those plans got canceled and I don't have room to store the machine anymore so I had it listed to sell. I forgot the loose babbitt bearing never got dealt with which is why I'm trying to get that taken care of as none of the interested parties want the headache of fixing that should it get worse which is completely understandable.

Stephen,
The oscillating mechanism still works fine, but there's a slight movement of the shaft in the babbitt and the slight shaking is visible with every oscillation. If I were to keep the machine I wouldn't be too worried about it, but as I mentioned I need to clear out space in my shop and I don't know any buyers that would want the potential headaches. I got fleeced by a dealer with a bait and switch where they advertised an Oakley in immaculate condition...I bit, and was overjoyed (*dripping w/ sarcasm) to see one that needed a major overhaul. I called the dealer to let him know how thrilled I was that he took me for a sucker and got the classic Northern New Jersey response "are you 'tret ning' me?!' ...live and learn.
You've provided some good potential solutions and different perspectives regarding the approach to problem solving, thank you. I'm not a machinist, but I do have a Bridgeport and a mag drill so I'll play around with that shaft and see what makes sense.
 
Who was the sleazy dealer? It's important to out those corrupt bastards!

I'm thinking the babbitt repour has got to be the easiest way here. Precision machining on a big cast iron carcass seems questionable at best. With the babbit, you can keep repouring til you get it right, and then you're an expert
 
The oscillating mechanism still works fine, but there's a slight movement of the shaft in the babbitt and the slight shaking is visible with every oscillation.

You've outlined the scenario, basically make it work and move on?
In that case, I think simply (as mentioned in earlier post) use your choice of poisons to do some rinsing between the bearing and the casting. Naptha &/or acetone are not as carcinogenic as the ones i mentioned. :) & a littel more green, as well. dab the elixir, shake the bearing, literally rinse & repeat.

When you get tired of that, start wicking in your choice of fixative. Again rocking the bearing as it goes, at least until the bearing seizes. Maybe include vibration at times to settle things. Add the fixative over a few more days until it stops taking it.

I honestly don't think this is a bodge, done well.
Well means packed full of something solid enough for the purpose. Unfortunately, i think superglue would not be durable as a filler, but the epoxies mentioned would be, as would Loctite proprietary products made for the application.

You do not really need a chemical bond for the process to work, in all likelihood, the babbitt was only ever mechanically keyed. What is required is something solid of approximately the same hardness and toughness of the babbitt - not a difficult spec for engineered plastic products or an approximation thereof. :)

OTOH, If it is easy to round up the tools and effort to pour babbitt, go for it and document on here.
 
All good points... I'll take a closer look this weekend and figure out the next steps. If I end up pouring new babbitt or replacing the shaft and using bronze bushings I'll document it here. Aside from being pissed off I overpaid for a tear down machine it was an interesting foray into industrial design and how the machine was constructed. The amount of castings and work that went into it is shocking compared to the modern day sheet metal cousins. I've always appreciated the aesthetics, natural curves and the classic locomotive style oscillating mechanism of the Oakley. And at 2800lbs she's nice and stout in the britches.
 
I decided to remove the shaft and recast it with Moglice. It was a relatively easy fix not worthy of a new thread.

I removed the shaft, chiseled out the babbitt, cleaned all the surfaces well, tapped threads into the top of each hub for affixing the hose barb fitting where the epoxy gets injected, repositioned the shaft, used modeling clay to dam the openings, put a couple of vent holes at the top of each hub and injected the moglice from a cartridge that fit in a caulk gun. Problem solved.
 








 
Back
Top