Sharpening Wood Planer Blades on a Milling Machine. - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big B View Post
    Perpendicular to the edge is what he was saying is best. ......
    Quite simply for the best and finest cutting edge he is wrong. This will leave a rougher edge.
    Work in the edge grinding world at 500-800X where a micron is a lot and you get this quickly.
    Perpendicular is most certainly faster, easier and produces less heat problems but you need to use finer grit wheels to get the same edge.
    Often you have no choice as the machine/process dictates.

    Perpendicular or 90 degree on the top surface can help as this is the direction of flow and as a old Valenite guy once told me it is easier to run down a plowed field than across it.
    Bob

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    My first try to adjust the blades I used an allen wrench to lever the blades up. The tool I made works better because the same angle change is about double the arc throw length at the handle end. This makes it easier to see and feel slight changes.
    Bil lD

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill D View Post
    My first try to adjust the blades I used an allen wrench to lever the blades up. The tool I made works better because the same angle change is about double the arc throw length at the handle end. This makes it easier to see and feel slight changes.
    Bil lD
    How about a picture? I'd make one of those. C'mon, you can do it. LOL

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    You can do a very good job setting up a planer with a block of hardwood and the machine unplugged. Place a smooth short maple block 2" thick directly under the head with the planer thickness set to the thickness of the block. If you start by setting the knives a little too far out, you can tap them back in carefully until they just graze the block of wood. Do this at the left side and the right side for each knife. Now your blades are set at the exact same cutting circle and you aren't dealing with discrepancies in the head, the head mounting, and the planer bed. Use that same block for the initial setting on the pressure bar. Set the bar so the block is a snug fit at the right side, and at the left side. If the planer has seen substantial use, you'll find that the block is tight at the sides, but loose in the middle, and this will cause you no end of problems. That's because both the bed and the pressure bar have seen the most use and wear in the middle, not at the sides. Here's a useful trick. Use a file on the pressure bar to get it to the exact same height above the bed in the middle as it is on the sides. Now the block is equally snug at the middle as it is at the sides, Once you've got the planer up and running, adjust the pressure bar so it is snug, but allows the board to feed through without stopping it. The feed rolls should be set just a bit below the cutting circle of the head. If you are planing a 1/32" cut, you want the cutterhead to remove the feed roll marks.
    A lot is sometimes said about getting all the knives to cut equally. You should set them as close as you can to that ideal, but realize that when the board comes out the other end, it will only show the cut marks from one knife. That's because although you tried to set them perfectly, one knife is always a tiny bit further out than the others, and its marks are the ones that show. The other knives are still doing their part to make a good cut, but only one knife is leaving marks. Just make sure everything is correct, plane a 2" wide piece of wood on the right side of the planer, and another one at the left side. Hold the two pieces of wood together and you can feel the difference in thickness if there is one.
    Good luck. The Parks is a nice little machine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WPVT View Post
    You can do a very good job setting up a planer with a block of hardwood and the machine unplugged. Place a smooth short maple block 2" thick directly under the head with the planer thickness set to the thickness of the block. If you start by setting the knives a little too far out, you can tap them back in carefully until they just graze the block of wood. Do this at the left side and the right side for each knife. Now your blades are set at the exact same cutting circle and you aren't dealing with discrepancies in the head, the head mounting, and the planer bed. Use that same block for the initial setting on the pressure bar. Set the bar so the block is a snug fit at the right side, and at the left side. If the planer has seen substantial use, you'll find that the block is tight at the sides, but loose in the middle, and this will cause you no end of problems. That's because both the bed and the pressure bar have seen the most use and wear in the middle, not at the sides. Here's a useful trick. Use a file on the pressure bar to get it to the exact same height above the bed in the middle as it is on the sides. Now the block is equally snug at the middle as it is at the sides, Once you've got the planer up and running, adjust the pressure bar so it is snug, but allows the board to feed through without stopping it. The feed rolls should be set just a bit below the cutting circle of the head. If you are planing a 1/32" cut, you want the cutterhead to remove the feed roll marks.
    A lot is sometimes said about getting all the knives to cut equally. You should set them as close as you can to that ideal, but realize that when the board comes out the other end, it will only show the cut marks from one knife. That's because although you tried to set them perfectly, one knife is always a tiny bit further out than the others, and its marks are the ones that show. The other knives are still doing their part to make a good cut, but only one knife is leaving marks. Just make sure everything is correct, plane a 2" wide piece of wood on the right side of the planer, and another one at the left side. Hold the two pieces of wood together and you can feel the difference in thickness if there is one.
    Good luck. The Parks is a nice little machine.

    That's essentially the method that Ive used for setting up my planer. It's nicely covered in the Parks Manual as well.

    I use a pair of 2" square aluminum bars 6" long that were cut from the same bar so that they are identical.

    There are some articles online that I've found as well.

    This is a good one.

    Restoring a Parks Planer - VintageMachinery.org Knowledge Base (Wiki)

    In the linked article is a nice diagram.

    parks-planer-setup.jpg

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    Errr have a missed a point here???

    You quote it would be US$50.00 for a set of three blades from Amazon etc ...

    ... Yet you spend US$100.00 for the Angle table plus mandrels plus stones and the man hours time take for the process.

    I'm sure there was a lot of satisfaction doing it yourself but financially why??????

    John

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jersey John View Post
    I'm sure there was a lot of satisfaction doing it yourself but financially why??????
    Because you can sharpen them any time you want now, forever. Sharp tools is good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jersey John View Post
    Errr have a missed a point here???

    You quote it would be US$50.00 for a set of three blades from Amazon etc ...

    ... Yet you spend US$100.00 for the Angle table plus mandrels plus stones and the man hours time take for the process.

    I'm sure there was a lot of satisfaction doing it yourself but financially why??????

    John
    In my salad days, I spent a great deal of time working in manufacturing in various aerospace companies in Southern California .I recall terms like "startup costs", "tooling costs" and "learning curve". While I'm in no way large enough to worry about those things, surely I can't be the only person on this great site who ever purchased tools to do a job with prospects of lowering costs and coming out on the other side.

    Someone who pays say $100 for a 3/4" carbide end mill is hoping that he will be able to amortize the initial costs and ultimately even make a profit with that tool. Or maybe he buys a 5C collet chuck and a whole set of collets in 64ths. He's probably hoping to come out on that purchase at some point.

    I love this site. There's always something new. This is the first time. I've ever been criticized for buying a tool. I'll be more careful in the future. LOL.

    Actually, you're the one who sort of missed the point. My point was to show others how I sharpen planer knives. Sure, there was $100 for the tilt table. The mandrel for the stones was free from a friend and 3 stones were another $10. I may never recover. ROTFLMAO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    Because you can sharpen them any time you want now, forever. Sharp tools is good.
    Manny wins the prize here!!!!!

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    My planer blades are adjusted in the machine by using a jig sitting on the table surface with a indicator with the point facing up at the edges
    of the knives. The blades are set parallel to the table within .001 from end to end. I don't mind any out of balance condition that might exist
    on the assembly because the important thing is that I want a parallel cut. If the blades are set parallel to the holder then you are placing a
    bet that the knife holder is parallel to the table end to end within .001.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rons View Post
    My planer blades are adjusted in the machine by using a jig sitting on the table surface with a indicator with the point facing up at the edges
    of the knives. The blades are set parallel to the table within .001 from end to end. I don't mind any out of balance condition that might exist
    on the assembly because the important thing is that I want a parallel cut. If the blades are set parallel to the holder then you are placing a
    bet that the knife holder is parallel to the table end to end within .001.

    Yes, gauges are really a necessity when setting up a wood planer. I showed the ones that I made earlier in post #20.

    I used them the other day to check that the Planer table was set parallel to the cutter head and they worked quite well. Fortunately, the measurements showed that I was within .001" of parallel. It's possible to change the setting but you have to move the gears that raise the table. I was happy not to have to make any changes there.

    I will use the gauges again next week when finish my setup checking the rollers and pressure bar.

    Someone earlier mentioned the need to balance the blades. I have a small scale with a 600 gram capacity. I weighed each of the blades and discovered that two of them were identical at 5.56 ounces. The third blade was at 5.60 ounces. A little grinding on one end quickly brought it even with the other two. Problem solved.

    Happy Trails.

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    For those that don't have a mill and $100 for the tilt table:


    Standard Saw Works
    181 10th St, Oakland, CA 94607
    (510) 832-0856

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    Back when I was making some classical guitars, first hand-planing and scraping sides/backs/tops (good exercise, but not fun), then various planing rigs, and such, planing was Russian-roulette trying to plane down (often brittle, figured) pieces down to .10" or less. I then got a powermatic overhead open-end 18" belt sander, which much less "exciting" and produces good results machining plates that thin (from cedar, to figured-maple, to rosewood). Or, they can be taken to a cabinet shop that has an overhead sander and in an hour thickness all the parts a person could use for a year. I have a few lifetime supplies (well, infinite supply at current output) of air-dried (30 years), split quartered western red cedar billets (4-10" thick) if interested. Cheers

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    QT: [considered making a fixture and doing them on my surface grinder but he said that you want a circular pattern on them, ]
    I have sharpened them on a surface grinder with a straight wheel flat dressed and with a straight wheel slightly radius dressed to be a hollow grind.. Also sharpened them with the concave of a cup and dish wheel so getting a hollow grind..for a time I ran a sharpening service up to 31" knives.

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    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    QT: [considered making a fixture and doing them on my surface grinder but he said that you want a circular pattern on them, ]
    I have sharpened them on a surface grinder with a straight wheel flat dressed and with a straight wheel slightly radius dressed to be a hollow grind.. Also sharpened them with the concave of a cup and dish wheel so getting a hollow grind..for a time I ran a sharpening service up to 31" knives.
    I've enjoyed hearing all of the various theories on which method to use on Planer blades. I've also looked at nearly all of the methods shown on YouTube and other sites featuring woodworking.

    Many of the people are doing them by hand with wooden fixtures cut to place them on the desired angle while sliding them back and forth on emery cloth. Others use a fixture with a grindstone mounted in place of a saw blade to get a sharp blade.

    After all of that, I'm convinced that one important part of sharpening planer blades is to make the cutting edge sharp and not worry about the angled side. That's used mainly as a chip breaker in any case. Personally I doubt that it makes any difference whether the blades are cut vertically, horizontally or with a cup-shaped grindstone. The original blades were never hollow ground,

    The most important issue in my mind, at least, is to be able to do them myself whenever they need it.

    In any case, I'd never ship them to have them sharpened because that would amount to probably $10.00 each way.

    Eve if there were a place that specialized in sharpening planer blades in my local area, at $3.65 a gallon, there's some more money spent since I live in a rural area and it's 30 miles to anywhere.

    Lots of nice ideas here, but I'm set.


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    I used to own a Buss planer and the 26" long blades represented a challenge for the local saw shop. The blades 1/2" thick, weighed something like 25# each so shipping them out was going to be expensive. I eventually bought an old Cincinnati #2 and still had to remove a ball from the table bearings to get enough travel. I milled up a jig at the correct angle.
    I ground them parallel to the blade edge but then hand-honed them with an oilstone so there really wasn't any "grain" left showing.
    101_0004.jpg
    This machine would take a 5/16" pass in softwood, or plywood even and the dust collector was the bottleneck. I pulled the ducting off and it looked like a chipper truck discharge.

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    Quote Originally Posted by teletech View Post
    I used to own a Buss planer and the 26" long blades represented a challenge for the local saw shop. The blades 1/2" thick, weighed something like 25# each so shipping them out was going to be expensive. I eventually bought an old Cincinnati #2 and still had to remove a ball from the table bearings to get enough travel. I milled up a jig at the correct angle.
    I ground them parallel to the blade edge but then hand-honed them with an oilstone so there really wasn't any "grain" left showing.
    101_0004.jpg
    This machine would take a 5/16" pass in softwood, or plywood even and the dust collector was the bottleneck. I pulled the ducting off and it looked like a chipper truck discharge.
    That was quite a machine. It's amazing how many brands of planers were built in the 20th Century. That one looks like it was a real workhorse!

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    The Cinci #2 and most if not all good grinders have the works , ways and the like boxed in so they are not subject to getting full of wheel abrasive grit.
    Older common mills and lathes are mostly wide open to abrasive grit getting into the precision parts...
    When I was sharpening flat knives I charged 30 to 50 cents per inch so one 30" knife was 15 bucks.
    Thar was fair/good price when a wrong method hack shop grind might warp a blade
    Now a days blades are much lower price because china and India have beat the prices down..bur still a sharpening at .30 would have the sharpening at about 1/2 the new price (for the bargain brand knives).
    But that price today does not support 20 bucks an hour so I cant do it any more on a manual machine.
    I had some very good accounts but the delivery time ate up much of the profits.

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    Indeed it is/was, it actually sprained the riggers forlift, popped out a part on his side-shift. About 5500Lbs and most of a compact car parking spot.
    Lunkenheimer oilers and babbitt bearings. I fitted a variable speed feed motor so it actually would make pretty smooth surfaces but you had to remove some material to remove the infeed marks. Traded it to a guy for delivery of a milling machine just to free up the space after I hadn't used it in a couple years though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Newman109 View Post
    That was quite a machine. It's amazing how many brands of planers were built in the 20th Century. That one looks like it was a real workhorse!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Newman109 View Post
    That was quite a machine. It's amazing how many brands of planers were built in the 20th Century. That one looks like it was a real workhorse!
    Yeah, those old industrial planers were made to run all day long to support a factory. And all the parts would be renewable or replaceable. And you're right, so many more manufacturers of just about everything in those days.


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