Shop air filter/scrubber? - Page 2
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 58
  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Flushing/Flint, Michigan
    Posts
    7,312
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    354
    Likes (Received)
    6135

    Default

    Is an air scrubber needed for such use.
    A while back in time "scrubbers" were wet. Not sure how well this works with lots of wood dust.
    Now it seems that they are more just finer filter levels plus maybe UV and ion generators.
    (Love UV, not such a fan of the ion type deal as the crap simply collects on everything in the room)
    All of which is easy to put in front of any suction/blower assembly.
    I do very much like electrostatics as the final in or on the output side assuming your air goes back into the room.
    The filters and changes are one thing, the cost of running my air cleaning and circulating system in power bills is very high.

    My goal has always been that the air in the shop is better to breathe than what is outside on the street.
    Doing so carries a price tag but you and your employees only get one built in set of lungs. Think about that replacement cost.
    Serious big multi-filter systems are so easy to build but you have to get the air flow and velocity right as it splits to where needed.
    Bob

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    TN
    Posts
    1,532
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    313
    Likes (Received)
    247

    Default

    For now buy and USE dust masks. The N95 rated ones. Its cheap and easy until you get a full system running.

  3. Likes Trboatworks liked this post
  4. #23
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    652
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    160
    Likes (Received)
    188

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    Is an air scrubber needed for such use.
    A while back in time "scrubbers" were wet. Not sure how well this works with lots of wood dust.
    Now it seems that they are more just finer filter levels plus maybe UV and ion generators.
    Bob
    Wet scrubbers work OK for wood dust but the "issue" or difference between wood dust and most other things separated by wet scrubbing is that wood dust tends to float and the water extract from many timbers is corrosive.
    For most purposes an external baghouse seems to be the most cost effective solution.

    IMHO the "box with filters" scrubber gives an illusion of effectiveness while distributing the problem, much like attempting asbestos abatement without the correct filters AND effective means of dealing with contaminated filters.

  5. #24
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    652
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    160
    Likes (Received)
    188

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    Ok- thanks.
    I mill LOTS of teak- odd thing is I am one of those few % who are allergic to teak plus mahogany rosewoods etc.
    I can get a rash on my arms if working teak when stinking hot- I understand the toxin is like that in poison ivy.
    I never notice particular irritation from it like I do with some mahoganies where I am coughing and have tears running down my face after a few hours of working.
    I wonder though what the inside of my lungs are looking like.
    I had to do some routing work this weekend and noticed all the damn dust in the air as the nice bright fall light was streaming in the windows- yikes!
    Plus- I got sick a while back- I rolled into the doctor and he said my pulmonary function was low- 200,when it should have been six... I wonder now what all this dust might be doing to my lungs.
    Too late?
    Maybe- a lifetime of various trades work later I have seen it all.
    Plus living in a old house with all the mess- one hundred years of mice running around, rock wool insulation drifting down the balloon frame from the attic- wow- it’s a wonder I can breathe at all..
    I guess I am thinking cleaning up the act now might help after all.
    And you also use epoxy resin?

  6. #25
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    13,783
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pattnmaker View Post
    I built a box with a big furnace fan inside. Either side has a fine furnace filter filtering the air going into the box. The ones that are about 6" thick. Then outside that I have a cheap fiberglass furnace filter. In my old shop I had it hanging from the ceiling and it made a huge difference in the air quality. I knock the dust off the pre filters outside about once a week and blow the thick fine filters out about once a month. It is still on the floor in the new shop and I need to get it hanging up and probably make a second one.

    This is above and beyond the dust collection on all machines.
    I've used the old contractors trick, buy a cheap 20 x 20 furnace
    filter, turn on a box fan, and it will stick on the back.

    Let it just blow the air around the room.

  7. #26
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Maryland- USA
    Posts
    3,003
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1768
    Likes (Received)
    1989

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenwud View Post
    And you also use epoxy resin?
    Yes.
    I don’t seem to be one of those who start out sensitized to it and I have long practiced safe use- so far so good as epoxies are a important part of marine work- even for a cabinet type shop such as mine.
    Today for instance I am encapsulating all the parts for this cabin sole I have made up.
    So far I have one small spot on my left eyelid that seems to go if I work with some of the cheaper five minute epoxies- I must have rubbed that spot a few too many times over the years with hot resin on gloves or sleeves.
    I try to always use 2:1 ratio mixes to stay away from the more potent hardeners.

  8. #27
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    BFE Nevada/San Marcos Tx
    Posts
    919
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    798
    Likes (Received)
    469

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenwud View Post

    IMHO the "box with filters" scrubber gives an illusion of effectiveness while distributing the problem, much like attempting asbestos abatement without the correct filters AND effective means of dealing with contaminated filters.
    The Aerospace America "box with filters", is specifically designed for asbestos abatement, it does not use "big box" filters, the filters used are 20" x 20" x 11.5" thick and filter to .2 microns. I got it because I need to deal with 100 years of dust, asbestos removal, concrete grinding, and wood dust. I cannot say how well the other units work, I am happy with the AA unit.

    TRb, if looking for one on CL use "negative air" as a search term.

  9. #28
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    652
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    160
    Likes (Received)
    188

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    Yes.
    I don’t seem to be one of those who start out sensitized to it and I have long practiced safe use- so far so good as epoxies are a important part of marine work- even for a cabinet type shop such as mine.
    Today for instance I am encapsulating all the parts for this cabin sole I have made up.
    So far I have one small spot on my left eyelid that seems to go if I work with some of the cheaper five minute epoxies- I must have rubbed that spot a few too many times over the years with hot resin on gloves or sleeves.
    I try to always use 2:1 ratio mixes to stay away from the more potent hardeners.
    Skin sensitivity can be quite different from lung sensitivity; I'm not sensitive to skin contact with normal precautionary practices but cannot deal with epoxy dust, less so when the epoxy is well cured. Hepa filters on vacuum systems when working with epoxy seemed to be the answer but the re-exposure when dealing with bags and filters clued me to the issue. I hope the planned baghouse will deal with the issue by removing the need to handle dust at disposal, and by increased airflow within the workshop.

    The most harmful wood dust is sub-10 micron; fine dust from hardwoods, plywood and sensitisers like epoxy would be something I'd be taking some care with.

  10. #29
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Syracuse, NY USA
    Posts
    9,653
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    18
    Likes (Received)
    562

    Default

    I work for oneida air systems. we will do a duct layout for you and sell you the duct work.
    as per above comments. you have to get the dust at is origin. the ambient filters are just a band aid.

  11. #30
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Maryland- USA
    Posts
    3,003
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1768
    Likes (Received)
    1989

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenwud View Post
    Skin sensitivity can be quite different from lung sensitivity; I'm not sensitive to skin contact with normal precautionary practices but cannot deal with epoxy dust, less so when the epoxy is well cured. Hepa filters on vacuum systems when working with epoxy seemed to be the answer but the re-exposure when dealing with bags and filters clued me to the issue. I hope the planned baghouse will deal with the issue by removing the need to handle dust at disposal, and by increased airflow within the workshop.

    The most harmful wood dust is sub-10 micron; fine dust from hardwoods, plywood and sensitisers like epoxy would be something I'd be taking some care with.

    Do you feel you are responding to the epoxy dust or the glass fiber content?
    I don’t work with any FRP in shop- laminating or grinding.
    I consider cured epoxies to be essentially inert though in any case I am processing small amounts- sand outs of cured glue lines etc end using effective dust collection to do so- Abernet paper on DA with Fein vac w/ HEPA filter bags.
    The DA setup is probably one place where I have dust controlled at source as you guys are suggesting due largely to the excellent Merka sander/paper and Fein vac setup.

    Epoxies:
    "cured epoxy resins are not a health risk"
    https://www.epoxy-europe.eu/wp-conte...chure_2017.pdf

  12. #31
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    652
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    160
    Likes (Received)
    188

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    Do you feel you are responding to the epoxy dust or the glass fiber content?
    I donít work with any FRP in shop- laminating or grinding.
    I consider cured epoxies to be essentially inert though in any case I am processing small amounts- sand outs of cured glue lines etc end using effective dust collection to do so- Abernet paper on DA with Fein vac w/ HEPA filter bags.
    The DA setup is probably one place where I have dust controlled at source as you guys are suggesting due largely to the excellent Merka sander/paper and Fein vac setup.

    Epoxies:
    "cured epoxy resins are not a health risk"
    https://www.epoxy-europe.eu/wp-conte...chure_2017.pdf
    No FRP here- wood glued with WEST epoxy. It's definitely a component of the epoxy as I use only cotton flock and glass microspheres to fill, and have had the reaction with both. Worse when newly hardened suggests there is unreacted hardener and resin and this either dissipates or reacts slowly over time.
    Mirka also made an air sander that used the exhaust air to pack the dust into a paper filter bag. It works very well but you get to drag a bag of dust about and I'd rather have it somewhere I don't have to deal with it again.
    What did the quack have to say about the diminished lung capacity and your occupational exposure?

  13. #32
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Maryland- USA
    Posts
    3,003
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1768
    Likes (Received)
    1989

    Default

    Re- occupational exposure.
    He didn’t comment and I didn’t think to bring it up.
    I was in for a lingering respiratory illness- garden variety bronchitis after a head cold.
    The attribution was mine and reflects a sort of long term realization that my lungs have been taking a beating.
    I’ve seen worse- I did general remodeling and construction for years- now THAT is a dusty business.
    I’ve never been mold phobic etc and just soldiered on as one does in contracting.
    Enough is enough though eh?

    As above I had big plans for dust control when I built the shop- I need to get off my ass and get it done.
    It’s sounding like I have a large decking contract coming in this winter that would require a planned shop expansion- I am thinking I allow for room to shed a cyclone and its bins when I knock down and move out the exterior walls.

  14. #33
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    652
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    160
    Likes (Received)
    188

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    Re- occupational exposure.
    He didnít comment and I didnít think to bring it up.
    I was in for a lingering respiratory illness- garden variety bronchitis after a head cold.
    The attribution was mine and reflects a sort of long term realization that my lungs have been taking a beating.
    Iíve seen worse- I did general remodeling and construction for years- now THAT is a dusty business.
    Iíve never been mold phobic etc and just soldiered on as one does in contracting.
    Enough is enough though eh?

    As above I had big plans for dust control when I built the shop- I need to get off my ass and get it done.
    Itís sounding like I have a large decking contract coming in this winter that would require a planned shop expansion- I am thinking I allow for room to shed a cyclone and its bins when I knock down and move out the exterior walls.
    Sorry, I don't know how do deal with dust extraction in a cold climate...
    I started thinking about it after finding myself with a dripping nose all winter. Tests all clear, no infection, not viral symptoms. Discussion with the Dr suggested dust exposure was a potential cause, he also suggested regular aerobic exercise such as running up a hill (I have nothing better to do) but it does work and some of the material coughed up is surprising.
    The comment he made was that lung damage is cumulative and fairly unpleasant even without cancer.

  15. #34
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    central NC
    Posts
    2,545
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    30
    Likes (Received)
    647

    Default

    On thing that I did with my Oneida cyclone system is that I duct the filtered output air from the Oneida into ductwork that runs all the way into the far side of the shop. If that ductwork wasn't there some of the filtered air just gets pulled back around and sucked into the intake side again, and again, etc. This way the cleanest air works its way back across the shop as the "dirtiest" air get pulled into the Oneida for the first time.

    Using the official "watch the amount of dust floating in the air being lit by sunshine" method, it definitely made an improvement.

    Agree with the other poster, if I am going to be a doing a lot of sawing or especially sanding, I wear my twin cheek filter 3M mask anyway.

    Steve

  16. #35
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Maryland- USA
    Posts
    3,003
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1768
    Likes (Received)
    1989

    Default

    Ok- progress!
    A client just decided this was in the way so gave me this:

    885cc5ea-5304-4ca3-9b15-5ee771b7c5c2.jpg

    I found this on the used market NIB:

    14f0fd04-38c0-4ccc-9d6d-c6f2caf6d284.jpg

    Question- will this unit do the job in small shop if gated at each machine:

    c0aee070-bf97-4b38-9870-078c9d0612bd.jpg

    Intake is 6” so I can run 6” trunk down shop center.

    I thought I had heard these need more balls than this?

    5feaa846-2f47-432b-8287-b88f8fda7cd6.jpg

    I need heavy chip collection at planer and then dust control at the normal stations:
    TS, shaper, router table, BS’s, cross cut station, disk and belt sanders, wood lathe.
    Trunk at ceiling at ~9’ over floor level.

  17. #36
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    24,701
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    7720

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    Question- will this unit do the job in small shop if gated at each machine:
    For once a trite phrase that actually fits! The price was right. You have no other option to-hand. So just... literally:

    "suck it and see!"

  18. Likes Trboatworks liked this post
  19. #37
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Maryland- USA
    Posts
    3,003
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1768
    Likes (Received)
    1989

    Default

    Good advice Bill- I would sell and buy larger is needed but you have it right- try and see.
    I bet it will be fine the bag system on planer is 2hp and drags chips well- right beside machine though.

    Price was RIGHT!
    The whole shop is getting a redo this winter- expanding building, tossing not used old machines, dust control and generally squaring away.
    I will run all the ducting and drops and try this unit out.

  20. #38
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    24,701
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    7720

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    Good advice Bill- I would sell and buy larger is needed but you have it right- try and see.
    I bet it will be fine the bag system on planer is 2hp and drags chips well- right beside machine though.

    Price was RIGHT!
    The whole shop is getting a redo this winter- expanding building, tossing not used old machines, dust control and generally squaring away.
    I will run all the ducting and drops and try this unit out.
    Speaking of "not used" old machines, did you ever find a USE for that - what was it? B&S? "all manual" height-vernier I dropped-off so you could get more accurate measurement on that "emergency" shaft (D1-4 4-Jaw was same trip..) than a tape-measure allows?

    I don't need it back - I am still in "surplus", but it can be useful to someone, I'm sure.

    "PS:" Check your local codes. You may have to make the ducting portable.

    VA code, to name one, is "tight" on mechanical HVAC & similar ducting approvals due to the potential for rapid spread of fires if not done proper-like. Or even if they ARE done to code, sadly! I tend to appreciate some beltway-bandit exposure to contracting for the needs at Fort Dietrich, but don't even ask the "WHY" of that. Wiki will give you the broadest of hints already.

  21. #39
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Huron
    Posts
    1,341
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1855
    Likes (Received)
    834

    Default

    This guy has a LOT of information. I don't know how accurate it is, or how useful it is, but it's there. I do agree in particular with his take on duct plumbing, most ducting systems I have seen were fairly worthless..

    Dust Collection Research - Home

  22. #40
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    24,701
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    7720

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Winterfalke View Post
    This guy has a LOT of information. I don't know how accurate it is, or how useful it is, but it's there. I do agree in particular with his take on duct plumbing, most ducting systems I have seen were fairly worthless..

    Dust Collection Research - Home
    Good one! And "seconded", yes.


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •