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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by richard newman View Post
    Bought used 50 yrs ago, came by railway freight, anyone remember those days?
    REA, Railway Express Agency, logo was a green diamond laid over on its side (or fatter than tall, diamond is a diamond I guess) ... there was some red in the logo too, I think.

    No, didn't look it up. They had an office in San Rafael, tracks on the back side, loading dock on the front. Very nineteenth-century, cool.

    The other one that was really useful, fast and cheap was Greyhound. They'd toss the freight in the baggage compartment, went just about anywhere in the US, did I mention cheap ? Limit was 200 lbs I think ?

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    REA, Railway Express Agency, logo was a green diamond laid over on its side (or fatter than tall, diamond is a diamond I guess) ... there was some red in the logo too, I think.

    No, didn't look it up. They had an office in San Rafael, tracks on the back side, loading dock on the front. Very nineteenth-century, cool.

    The other one that was really useful, fast and cheap was Greyhound. They'd toss the freight in the baggage compartment, went just about anywhere in the US, did I mention cheap ? Limit was 200 lbs I think ?
    Iíve used both Railway (Amtrak) and Greyhound for shipping within the last decade. For large objects that are relatively low in weight, like a tuba in a case, their shipping costs are about the lowest out there.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    Of course you are absolutely right, I just hoped someone would have a line on a lighter saw with a decent bearing assembly and a decent fence.

    Would it be heresy to drill a router mount in a Unisaw table?[or Powermatic, as mentioned they are probably better] I have no understanding of the silliness that is my router table fence

    Unisaws can be had for 500 bucks if you keep an eye out, and after I finish with this series of projects I may do that

    I guess I will either design a bench that the saw slides under, or figure out how to integrate the RAS and Unisaw into one space
    Someone already suggested it, but it bears repeating. An 8” Delta Homecraft saw will do everything you mentioned. They have the same design as the later 9 and 10” contractors saw, but they are light and easy to move around. I have one that I use a lot. More than my Unisaw in fact. I put a 1.5hp Baldor motor on it and bought a light weight Shop Fox fence for it (I had to adapt it, because the table on the 8” saw is smaller than the Unisaw or 10” contractors saw). The fence really makes the saw, and very few stock fences have the features that a modern replacement fence have (slot for hold-downs, magnifier & accurate scale, easy adjustment for parallel to blade and perpendicular to table top), rollers, three point clamping for consistent accuracy...). It also has a Forrest blade stabilizer (which virtually eliminates blade vibration) and uses a link belt (which eliminates motor vibration). Another thing I like better about the 8” Homecraft saw is cleanup. It leaves a pile of sawdust below the saw, so cleanup is easy. The unisaw by comparison collects sawdust inside and cleanup is more of a pita, probably because it usually collects until it becomes a problem and you have to deal with it. Yes you can add dust collection, but I hate dealing with dust collectors, I would prefer to work outside and sweep up at the end of the day.

    My Unisaw by comparison has long rails, an outfeed roller table, a three-phase motor and is built into a cabinet which stores all the table saw tooling. The entire saw and cabinet are on a long HTC mobile base, so when I use it I roll it out of the shop onto the driveway, where I have enough workspace to handle sheet goods and do cabinet work.

    Regarding putting a router mount on a Unisaw table, yes, there are lots of possibilities. If you remove one of the cast iron wings, you can buy a replacement cast iron wing that is already set up with a hole for a router and a miter slot. It comes with a purpose-built fence with a dust chute. Or you can make your own out of plywood. That is what I did originally. Now I have a Delta HD shaper which I installed the cast iron router table on, so I can have a setup with two cutters.

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  5. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeteM View Post
    Some of the new miter saws (Bosch, for example) now have a parallelogram sort of guide, rather than bars extending out the back. You can get a 12-14" cross cut (and up to 28" flipped) while sitting on a pretty shallow bench - on rollers if needed.

    If buying today, I'd consider (and as a friend just bought) something like this: https://www.amazon.com/Bosch-120-Vol...hi&sr=1-3&th=1

    Add a track type saw and that combination would do most stuff. Even the ones that ride on an aluminum angle with a roller-bearing platform for a circular saw are capable of breaking down ply for most home-level cabinet work.
    I have the bosch glide parallelogram saw. I use it quite a bit, but it isn't as solid as a slider with bars, and a slider with bars isn't as solid as a chop saw without them. It"s pretty easy to get 1/32 of drift at the end of a long cut.

    To me, that's worth it for the space savings, but then again I have a CNC router for breaking down sheet doing cabinetry and sheet goods. The Bosch is too heavy to drag to a jobsite and too flexible to do really precise work on. It's great on a bench in a garage for all-purpose work, though.

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    Powermatic 66 or unisaw is not going to be much bigger footprint than a contractor saw, if the wings are pulled off. It will be a LOT heavier. We have had a couple 66's and a unisaw, We just pulled a 66 out of service and replaced it with a sawstop 5hp. Nice saw, good dust collection right off the blade, sent 1200 ft of 8/4 sapele through it in the firstfew hours. That would have shut down the 3hp 66 many times from popping the thermal switch. $$$ saw, but one finger is probably more expensive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    As you said, if a stripped down Unisaw is no larger than a contractor saw and you have the money to buy it and electric service to run it why not?

    You are used to the power and rigidity so anything smaller and lighter will likely be a disappointment.

    When I think Unisaw I usually think of the full setup with dining table size work surface. They are definitely a space hog.

    So my question is, could you most of the time use the stripped down Unisaw on a mobile base and only bolt on the wings for special projects? It would be a PITA but would be one solution to limited space. The ideal would be to rig one so the table extension and extended rail fold down but that would take a bit of design and machining work.

    I often see older Powermatics for sale and as I recall they were a pretty decent saw. As I said earlier, if you use a Unisaw at work using a lighter saw at home is going to be a letdown. I'm used to the contractor saw, which I bought new in the 70s. I've kind of grown up with its limitations and the required workarounds.
    F**king Scott

    I really really hate youuni.jpg

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    Funny story about picking this up.
    Saw it on FB marketplace, price I could not refuse, drove down to the Cape to pick it up.
    Small wordworking shop the owner had passed away. Son was selling the contents.
    Underside under a sloped sheet metal cover was packed with an archeological dig of sawdust. Cutting out solid chunks on a windy day left us covered in sawdust and laughing out loud.

    It came without a right extension, and they made it clear that anything that went with it was included, so I made a few runs around the shop to see if it was leaning against a wall somewhere[turns out it is not a standard fitting]

    Third time around the maybe 500 sq ft shop, I realize there is another unisaw sitting there. Old circa 1950. They don't have a plug to fire it up, they only want scrap value.

    Needless to say, unstrapped the pictured saw and pushed it forward on the trailer, poor little HF trailer hauled two unisaws home.

    Dropped the older one at a friends, only needs a arbor nut. It fired right up.


    Saws first project was building a bench to put it under.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stoneaxe View Post
    Powermatic 66 or unisaw is not going to be much bigger footprint than a contractor saw, if the wings are pulled off. It will be a LOT heavier. We have had a couple 66's and a unisaw, We just pulled a 66 out of service and replaced it with a sawstop 5hp. Nice saw, good dust collection right off the blade, sent 1200 ft of 8/4 sapele through it in the firstfew hours. That would have shut down the 3hp 66 many times from popping the thermal switch. $$$ saw, but one finger is probably more expensive.
    Wow I find that interesting. Not what I have experience with but I would be surprised that an industrial machine would trip out like that. That is some nasty ass wood, and a bunch of it, but I would expect it to be in a Powermatics wheelhouse

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    Kinda depends on the blade and how hard you're pushing. But 5 horses can sure out-pull 3 horses, all other things being equal.

    Also possible the PM had improperly sized or defective heaters. Were both saws used on the same branch circuit?

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    Quote Originally Posted by richard newman View Post
    Kinda depends on the blade and how hard you're pushing. But 5 horses can sure out-pull 3 horses, all other things being equal.

    Also possible the PM had improperly sized or defective heaters. Were both saws used on the same branch circuit?
    Exact same circuit. I did not realize , when I bought the powermatic, that the "3" hp was really just a 2hp motor set up to be able to have a little higher peak hp. Doing things like ripping slats off of 8/4 maple, it just got hot and tripped the thermal OL.
    We usually use inexspensive Freud 24 tooth thin kerf rip blades, they work quite well. Except for the red teflon coating, which has a tendency to let the blade slip on the arbor and jam the nut up too tight. And of course since the powermatic does not have a place to put a wrench on the arbor shaft, it can be hard to get a stuck blade off. We sand off all the red non stick now, for a few inches around where the arbor flange goes. I called Freud a few times, to try to talk to someone who gave a shit and recommend they mask off the center three inches,so the blade would not get stuck, but no one cared.
    Funny, today I was having problems with the sawstop splitter- the rip blade was at the lower end of kerf for the splitter thickness, and the boards were getting stuck on the painted splitter. Sanded off all the powdercoat and it works fine- must have had a lot of paint on it.

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    Well, if it's a 2hp motor, it is certainly underpowered IMHO. 5hp is a VAST step up!

    The sawstops are nice machines, they have them at RIT, and saved one of my favorite students from losing a finger when I last taught there 10 yrs ago. That really impressed me! But I thought their miter gauges were kinda flimsy and sloppy. For a saw at that price point they should give you a nice, tight gauge. Hope yours is better. Also, as I remember when the students changed blades on them, if they weren't careful about adjusting things, the brake slammed on at significant cost.

    My saw is a 12/14 Delta bought used 50 yrs ago, unisaw on steroids. Actually a much heavier sawe, but still Delta. Had to true up the arbor flange, and later hand file the table slots parallel and to a consistent width, I inserted wear bronze strips into the miter slide to get rid of all the play, WAY better for my purposes. I always thought I needed an Oliver, Tanny or Northfield, finally got a Tanny XJSW slider from a Kodak liquidation sale. Thing sat in the hallway for years, til I funally sold it to a guy looking for that exact saw. The Delta does what I need it to do, especially after I tweaked it. Got beware machine lust and focus on the work!

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    Sliding table saws are wicked cool..........

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    New bench with saw underneath

    bench.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    Sliding table saws are wicked cool..........
    My Hammond glider is one of my favorite machines. Just the right size for an instrument maker.

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    Quote Originally Posted by richard newman View Post
    My Hammond glider is one of my favorite machines. Just the right size for an instrument maker.
    I am using the sawstop paired up with a felder saw/shaper combo with a slider- a big deck of cast iron all shimmed to the same height. The felder has a fold away power feed and indexing shaper fence, so it is real quick to clean it off to run sheet goods on the sawstop. If I am using a sliding carraige on the sawstop to the right, I put a plywood shim the same thickness on the felder slifing table to the left, and use the felder slider to help carry the sheet through.

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    Great idea! Could we see a picture?

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    I'm getting by with a Powermatic 66 for big stuff, and a Ryobi BT-3000 on a old Home Depot fold-up/roll-around stand for location work. The Ryobi is aluminum, plastic, and borderline flimsy. But it also is completely adjustable/alignable, has thoughtful design and accessories, and a sliding table and attached outfeed table. So if you stay within its limitations, it does a fine job.

    Always happy to get back to the PM66 though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chip Chester View Post
    I'm getting by with a Powermatic 66 for big stuff, and a Ryobi BT-3000 on a old Home Depot fold-up/roll-around stand for location work. The Ryobi is aluminum, plastic, and borderline flimsy. But it also is completely adjustable/alignable, has thoughtful design and accessories, and a sliding table and attached outfeed table. So if you stay within its limitations, it does a fine job.

    Always happy to get back to the PM66 though.
    My buddy who lent me the Makita to do the project that initiated this thread came over and used my work Unisaw for a project he was working on, and was in awe of the difference.

    I dropped the older Unisaw from the above story at his house.

    It really is the difference between a Chinese mill drill and a real Bridgeport[or more like my Lagun]

    Theoretically the do the same thing, but not really

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    Quote Originally Posted by rons View Post
    I own a Unisaw and have compared it with a Powermatic. Powermatic is better.
    This regards the machines made on native soil, hi how are ya, hi how are ya....
    Back in the early 80ís I worked for a clock company, Mason & Sullivan, and we exhibited at a woodworking show in Madison Square Garden. Up on about the fifth floor.

    One of the other exhibitors was a NYC seller of woodworking machines, John Harra. John had brought in a Unitas and a Powermatic 66. To transport them, he had removed the tables from each, and he left them for a while like that on the exhibit floor. Next to each other. With all of the trunnions and other castings in plain view. He told me that the Delta rep had soon come to him begging him to put the tables back on right away, as everyone that wandered by couldnít help comparing the two - and the Powermatic castings looked to be about twice as heavy.

    Now Iím not saying that the Unisaw isnít a decent saw, or that the Powermatic castings needed to be as beefy as they were. But in this case the picture was worth much more than a thousand words...

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnMartin View Post
    Back in the early 80ís I worked for a clock company, Mason & Sullivan, and we exhibited at a woodworking show in Madison Square Garden. Up on about the fifth floor.

    One of the other exhibitors was a NYC seller of woodworking machines, John Harra. John had brought in a Unitas and a Powermatic 66. To transport them, he had removed the tables from each, and he left them for a while like that on the exhibit floor. Next to each other. With all of the trunnions and other castings in plain view. He told me that the Delta rep had soon come to him begging him to put the tables back on right away, as everyone that wandered by couldnít help comparing the two - and the Powermatic castings looked to be about twice as heavy.

    Now Iím not saying that the Unisaw isnít a decent saw, or that the Powermatic castings needed to be as beefy as they were. But in this case the picture was worth much more than a thousand words...
    The big functional difference is the unisaw tilts right, and the powermatic left. Whoever thought trapping a wedge under the blade next to a fence was not thinking clearly....


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