Want to make a re-saw power feeder for bandsaw - looking for advice

I'm going to build a power feed for re-sawing laminations for banjo rims, using a 20" Powermatic or 36" Tannewitz saw. It will be sized and for just this use, and then I will apply what I learn to a larger gizmo for sawing guitar backs and sides from some very rare and valuable stock I've collected over the years (my retirement strategy).

The lams are 4' long, 3" wide and range from 1/16" to 7/16" thick. Maple, cherry, walnut and mahogany usually, plain or highly figured. I start with 4/4 to 12/4 rough lumber, saw it to 4' x 3" blanks. Then clean up the faces by running them thru the planer without jointing to maximize thickness, the lams can have some twist or bend, they will be steam bent and "disciplined" later.

After sawing they go thru the planer or widebelt to final thickness and clean up saw marks. One side of the lams is a glue joint, other gets turned afterwards. I prepare a couple of hundred at a time.

Since the blanks are not straight, I'm thinking of using a 3" high roller fence, maybe 6"-8" long. Feed will be a single rubber roller, 3"h x 4" diam. on a swing arm or linear track, with pressure applied by an air cylinder. Pressure will be critical to keep twisted stock on the fence. Powered by a 1/4hp dc motor with a speed control, probably chain driven, haven't worked this out yet at all.

I'd like to get accuracy to .005", and maybe get a surface suitable for glue joints using carbide blades. Or at least just require a dusting thru the widebelt. I've considered building in some blade guides directly above and below the cut for maximum blade stabilization.

I thought I'd just throw this out before I go further to see if anyone has any experience, suggestions, or criticisms. Best kind of feed rollers? Anyone know about dc moters and controls?

best i have seen have a belt feed as apart of the fence. The fence is thread feed and you set a roller on the other side of the blade just at the tooth set to the thickness. Each cut you extend the fence feed with the thread and never have to power the saw down. no need to hold the stock flat if only one roller is used.

I made a small resaw from parts I had around and an older Hitachi i got for $200. this keeps the my big Wadkin free for curvy work. I did toss the OEM motor an put on a 5HP . i use it for stave core door work and roll it out when i need it.







jack
English machines

Richard-

I've built feed rolls before, for planers, using Devcon products urethane. Very tough (some in service 20+ years almost daily and still going fine). If a special size and shape is really needed, that or a similar castable urethane is an option.

However, my preference is to try to design around one of Western Roller's products. They are inexpensive, tough, and easy as picking up the phone to replace. I've got a couple of each of their 70duro yellow tires, and their 50 duro purple tires on quick change wheels. Several years later, jury is still out for me whether softer is better. But there are times the purple is a good choice.

Polyurethane Roller Solutions | Western Roller Corporation

I've made 3 stock feeders from scratch, and occasionally use one or another on the BS when resawing stuff that can run fast. I think I'd use at least 2 wheels. One somewhat back in front of the band, and one right at the start of the cut. This gives a little more time and control initiating the cut.

To me the most time consuming (or difficult) part is making the parts to mount the stock feeder, for positioning.
I've generally used the 1/4 and 1/2 HP surplus single phase AC gear motors and used sheaves for speed control; but I've never needed one that was speed adjustable on the fly. I did acquire a zero-max many years ago just in case, but never built the dedicated BS feeder (don't think about that too seriously ) imagined for it.

Note that WRC offers belt conversions. I've played with one at Grizzly on their close-out bargain rack, but decided to leave it there. However, the possibility of making a pair of tall steel sheaves, and stacking the "rubber bands" up as high as necessary is one option I've mulled over. Or keyed shafts with a stack of keyed sheaves. 2 big drums would be a lot simpler, though.

I don't think a roller fence is necessary, and kind of feel (for fine work) it might not be ideal. Can't quite articulate why, though.

It will be fascinating to see how you engineer it!

smt

Why go through the trouble of building a re-saw feeder when there are plenty of low cost small units available. Google it.

A while back I had to re-saw a lot of reclaimed chestnut into veneer. I bought a Grizzle vertical re-saw feeder. Drilled and taped a few holes in the band saw table and I was in business.

With such expensive material, and seeing how the pieces are short, why not a carriage ?

Clamp it all up/down, pusher screws in back to straighten, bend,... take your time
to get what ever you need to get it lined up, then send it down the track.

Heck rig up a simple laser to cast the line down
onto the wood, just like the "big boys" running an edger at the mill.

A "Mini Frick" that bolt's to the table.

Ed-u-cate me what's important/needed in re-saw.

I have built such a feeder, air cylinder for pressure, dc motor, chain drive. I used a 4 inch high by 6 inch wheel covered in rubber rough top belting. It works fine except for considerable amount of slippage on planed wood.If I had to do it over again, I would use 2 rollers or a roller with some type of teeth. Good luck. Bob

stephen thomas said:

Richard-

I've built feed rolls before,
smt

Click to expand...

Do you have pictures?

Thanks for all the replies and suggestions, this is something I've been wanting to make for many years, finally time to try it. I have two goals that may be a bit incompatible - speed and accuracy. Also, I intend to use what I learn in the 3" feeder to make a larger unit capable of handling up to 12" widths for guitar wood.

Most of the stuff I cut is plain hard maple, speed and effort reduction are important. I have an Elu power feeder that I've used on my 36" saw, and it was plenty fast, but a PIA to set up. Real heavy, and just too large and awkward for such narrow stock. Used plain straight fence, had some slippage which required a little pushing assistance, but it went quickly. Seemed like a much smaller unit capable of lots of pressure on the feed roller would be perfect.

Then there is the rare, costly, and often squirrelly stuff. Here accuracy is everything, especially for guitar sets where on additional slice can get you an entire extra set. Here i thought a really rigid setup, with lots of pressure on the feed/pressure roller(s) would be needed. Want to keep the work on the fence right at the cut, thus a short fence and single heavy pressure roll. I'd even thought of maybe just a single roller instead of the fence, but I'm going to try the short fence first.

The unit Jack mentions sounds like the new Laguana resaw feeder. I don't want to have to adjust the fence after each cut, and I want to be able to cut continuously feeding multiple blanks. And I'm more comfortable regulating the thickness by the distance beeween blade & fence (old dog, new trick?)

diggerdoug's carriage suggestion would work, I've seen setups like this, but again I prefer a thru-feed arrangement if I can make it. For instance I have a 8' x 9" board of old, highly figured cuban mahogany, planed to 7/8" that I'd like to convert to guitar sets. I'd prefer to resaw it full size, rather than cutting it up into blanks, just in case there are some surprises inside. Also it might yield more sets if I can deal with the slices in pairs, i.e. one pair for sides and the other for backs. Only of course if I can get 4 good pieces!

Bob-J-H - What size and how much pressure did you use in your air cylinder? Did more force give less slippage? I'm reluctant to use a knurled/toothed feed roll, I want to avoid a dent pattern on that face in case it needs to be used.

smt - I used Western's rollers on my elu, I will probably use them here, if I don't cheap out and use Grizzly. I couldn't swear they were any better than the oem rollers, after 25-30 years the Western's are all gooey, and the oem's are like stones (kinda like my body parts)

I know I may be hoping for too much, that makes it even more interesting to me. 25 years ago I cobbled together a crude feed unit to resaw veneers from a 24" wide highly figured mahogany plank. I used a hand cranked winch to pull the board thru on a backer board of masonite, and pressure fingers with weights on a pulley to keep the board against the fence. Flat fence with UHMW tape on the face. I had to modify the upper guide on the Tannewitz and remove some sheet metal to get it under the guide. But incredibly it worked - we sawed to .060" and were accurate to .010, only with mahogany could we hope to accomplish that! But I used that set-up to saw veneers an awful lot of furniture since then. I have some pix, if I can find them I'll scan and post them.

The only resaw feeders I have seen on band saws have been using rollers on the idler side but they were not looking for fine finish to reduce wastage. If I were to build one for your application I would look closely at using a belt on both sides, probably both powered. Think about laying belt sanders on edge each side, the inner one fixed position to provide thickness desired and the outer one spring loaded to provide traction. I guess the outer one would have to end shy of the blade so as not to pinch. If you incorporate a bottom blade guide you could make it as a unit that could be used on top of the bandsaw table allowing drive system to power both sides and make fine adjustment of angle of contact with the blade. One can get nice 4'' chevroned belting for balers or conveyors.
Rob

Hi Richard I used a 2 inch dia cylinder. If you increase the air pressure, you also increase the friction on the fence, up to the point where the fence deflects, so it is a trade-off. I also made a belt feeder for my 20 inch jointer using a roller fence, sort of a poor mans straight line rip. It worked much better. Bob

Actually, most resaws are between to rollers. So despite my objection above, having an idler roll right behind the powered roll could be ideal. I think my main feeling is that there ought to be a flat fence leading in to it. Also that based on a lot of years of both electric powered and hand powered resawing, I do think for myself there is benefit to have a section of the feed works start the material well before the last roll right at the cutting edge.

Robvds idea about belts is intriguing, kind of like the modern version of horizontal resaws with a thin band.





Horizontal Resaw, Horizontal Resaw Products, Horizontal Resaw Suppliers and Manufacturers at Alibaba.com

Richard- for fresh wheels, the OEM rubber products and WRC are probably comparable at 70 DuroA. But the WRC retain the soft squishy condition while the rubber, as you mention, slowly turns to rocks (or hardwood). My point was more about the panoply of options from WRC (wide range of sizes, tubes, belts, QC wheels, various durometers) that are inexpensive (relatively) and quick to prototype with. As opposed to rolling your own. But it certainly is possible to cast one large cylinder from various formulators' urethane products, if that would work better.

LUke, thought I had pictures of one feeding the bandsaw, but could not find them. All were made about 30- 40 years ago when my only machine tools were a cutting torch, angle grinder, and an import drill press with a cross slide table. The first was a serrated, intermittant feed on an automatic dentil mould making machine. The next was a double roll flat feeder for a jointer (both rolls, stolen from a Belsaw, on the outfeed of the jointer. Worked pretty well on the jointer but was hard to configure easily for the BS. It is now buried somewhere in the neighbors barn. I got a Bilstrom commercial feeder duty on a 16" jointer. The next was a long 4 wheel job using commercial wheels, that is still in use on the double spindle shaper. I made it originally to feed flooring on a diagonal between both spindles at once, to do both T & G at the same time. Will "eventually" try to get photos. A lot of this stuff was made when commercial versions were proportionately much more expensive. Or in my cases (jointer feed, feed to straddle the full length between 2 spindles on a shaper at once) not available. Chinese clones have made re-purposing commercial units a much better proposition in most cases today.

smt

I'd thought about an endless belt feed also, but hoped I could get away with rollers, seemed easier for a first attempt. But maybe that is the way to go. Would make the moveable pressure roll on the other side much simpler, not needing power.

The new Laguna feeder uses abrasive belts instead of rubber, WAY cheaper I'd guess, but I'm not sure I want all those loose grits around my saw and gizmo. Check out the video.
Laguna Power Feeder by Laguna Tools - 800.234.1976

whoa!
so turn a cheap 6" beltsander up on its side and Bob's yer uncle!

I knew there had to be a reason to acquire that 13" wide unit you worked so hard to get down here for me!

Or maybe in my case, since it has the 2 huge rubber rolls over the 13" wide sanding belts, I should just get a small 18 or 20" saw, and graft it on horizontally. Where is photo shop when I need to learn how to use it?

smt

i think the laguna is about the kind of accuracy you talking about. the cut is on the waste side of the blade so to speak and contrary to most set ups for re saws. the accuracy comes for always using the same face off the feed fence that is adjustable for blade drift .the other thing to remember is feed can be useful on the out feed and really only possible with the feed between the blade and fence. Unlike the one that use the next cut face as reference any blade wander is not a problem with this set up . to improve on the fence feed would be to have a quick set thickness setter for the fence and if your looking for fun haveing it auto would be good. My Hitachi has a rack and pinon so i may use that.



jack
English machines

I can't see the advantage of having your intended piece come from the side of the blade away from the fence. If you are getting +/-.003 on that piece, then the piece between the blade and fence should be equally accurate, unless the kerf is not constant, in which case your next piece would be screwed. Am I missing something?

whoops, wrote this as Jack was posting, but my question still stands. all my fences have been adjustable for blade drift, so that is not the issue.

Richard,

do you have to alternate sides of the main blank, when resawing mulitple laminae (more than 2)? Or is your stash pretty "dead" at this point?

My lumber is seldom aged enough, when the job happens, and I have found that best yield, for me, involves straightening one edge, + a light surfacing on each face of say an 8/4 plank. Then I saw off the crown face, which tends to make the other side crown. Saw that, then "judiciously" sight the blank for any localized bumps, knock them off either with a handplane , or the jointer still set very fine. I do not obliterate the saw marks generally just "fix" any localized flatness defects that would ride the fence or increase error in the next cut.

I did once have the joy of resawing some 8/4 airdried walnut, 15" wide, maybe a 10 long plank, and it barely moved. I want to say it didn't even move. Sometimes I have had close experiences with mahogany, or cherry that has laid in the loft a long time, but nothing quite to match that revelation. Oh, now I'm remembering some ~10" + wide flame birch from the 20's that was in 5/4 closet dividers in a very nice house of the period. It turned out to be pretty stable, especially for figured birch. When making them a library/great room, I resawed the old closet dividers into 1/16" veneers (probably sawed at 3/32" with saw kerf on both faces) for the many horizontal surfaces (benches and counters)in the room. The old stuff throughout the house had been stained to imitate mahogany, so we kept the same theme.

Anyway, back on message, most of the stuff I have to resaw moves, often quite a lot. Sometimes I'm surprised when it does not, but tend to make allowance for it. I have seldom been able to start on one side, and keep sawing from that face with best yield. Also, with resawing from one side, the sawn face of the main blank will usually start to cup. So if I don't pay attenition and dress it as necessary, the veneers get wasted through hollow middles. However, in some cases, once back and forth can stop the worst of it.

I have occasionally tried to just do everything on the saw (no intermediate flattening between saw passes) but all in all have very seldom found that to give best yield for very thin, very wide parts. Then again, it's often very long stuff, too. Sometimes (in the very distant past) scarf jointed to 20' or so for bending laminae.

smt

Good point Stephen. It's been so long since I've sawn wide veneers, but I remember alternating faces to deal with that, especially with hard maple. It's far less critical with 3" wide stuff. But that's one of the reasons I want really good hold down pressure. My old gizmo (wish I knew where the photos were!) had 3 pressure arms tipped with UHMW - middle and each edge - and I could adjust the force by dropping more scrap iron in the bucket. It was real effective at keeping boards flat on the fence.

If I have success with the 3" unit, the wider version will have at least 3 independent pressure rollers.

I also remember gluing "troublesome" pieces to a stout carrier board to eliminate that cupping issue. Only for shorter stock tho.

All I want a gizmo where I continuously feed in boards and out come perfectly accurate slices, time after time with no effort. Asking too much?

Hi Richard,
I have a feeder i posted on my blog it might work out for you and save you alot of trouble, it my need a little tweeking and TLC sold as is .
You can see at MAC'S BLOG BOARD and look at banner top for Band saw feeder FS
thanks mac,,,

martin/campshure/co/llc
mac campshure
7412 elmwood ave.
middleton, wi 53562-3106
608-332-2330 cell
608-824-0023 fax
[email protected]
airtightclamps.com

band saw feeder available now in kit form cheap

castiron said:

Hi Richard,
I have a feeder i posted on my blog it might work out for you and save you alot of trouble, it my need a little tweeking and TLC sold as is .
You can see at MAC'S BLOG BOARD and look at banner top for Band saw feeder FS
thanks mac,

I have developed a kit for a super light weight, versatile power feeder that works great for resawing. (the Little Proteus) PM me or use Google for more information.

Click to expand...