What planer to buy to minimize tear-out and snipe

I am looking for a planer to do a better job than the old school Poitras one I have. I would like something that minimizes tear-out. I am considering a used European combination machine or a new planer with a spiral head. Ease of knife change-out is also a consideration.

In my experience, a good length outfeed table is more important than type of planer.

L7

When the board is almost all the way through the planer, gently apply upward pressure to the board. It will keep the board from elevating from the table and your snipe is gone. I also do the same thing on the in-feed side.

Tear-out is more a function of grain direction.

If you are looking for a replacement planer get one with a knife grinding attachment. I like the 20" and larger Powermatic planers.

A wide belt sander with a coarse belt would certainly solve the problem. Look into a back bevel on your knives for solving tear out.

rons said:

When the board is almost all the way through the planer, gently apply upward pressure to the board. It will keep the board from elevating from the table and your snipe is gone. I also do the same thing on the in-feed side.

Tear-out is more a function of grain direction.

If you are looking for a replacement planer get one with a knife grinding attachment. I like the 20" and larger Powermatic planers.

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yup

did a bunch of reclaiming redwood with a craftsman planer and this worked pretty well.

Not artwork mind you but pretty decent

SBAER said:

I am looking for a planer to do a better job than the old school Poitras one I have. I would like something that minimizes tear-out. I am considering a used European combination machine or a new planer with a spiral head. Ease of knife change-out is also a consideration.

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I purchased the Laguna 16" with their Sheartech helical head. The main reason was 6 rows of cutters 108 knives.
Jet has 68
Grizzly has 74
Byrd has 80
The first thing I put through it was a piece of Kentucky coffeetree that has a huge knot in it. It came through just great.
Could you put a Byrd head in your Poitras?

Could you put a Byrd head in your Poitras?[/QUOTE]

Thought about that but to get a quote you need to take the head out to measure it. Poitras is not a common machine.

Here is a picture of the model in question

https://forum.canadianwoodworking.com/filedata/fetch?id=1072225

Maybe spending $1000 on a new cutter head actually makes sense. Snipe is not too bad but even the slow feed is pretty fast (leaves undulating pattern) and tear-out is noticeably worse than my cheap Ridgid planer even with freshly sharpened knives.

Does the planer have an pressure bar on the outfeed side of the cutterhead? This needs to be properly adjusted to minimize snipe. But I've also found that proper application of hand pressure to the board really helps. I pull the end of the board up with one hand while pushing the board down to the table with the other. The point is to keep the board firmly on the table under the cutterhead.

As to tearout, I think the Byrd heads are absolutely the best, especially with highly figured wood. I have a Shelix cutterhead for my shaper and one in a Powermatic 6", and they are great. They do leave slightly scalloped surface, but that is not a problem, as any machine planed surface requires additional work for finishing. I acquired a 12" Boice Crane planer with the intent to fit it with a Shelix head, dc variable speed feed motor, and rubber outfeed roll. Haven't had the time, getting by with my widebelt sander for squirrely stock.

My understanding of 'why snipe happens'

There are two roller supports, infeed and outfeed

Feeding in, until you engage both, the board can move.

feeding out, after you stop engaging the infeed roller, the board can move

So, when infeeding you pick the board up, since you cannot force it further down into the table, it keeps it as low as possible.

After it fully engages the outfeed roller, you gently let the board rest on the infeed table, walk over and as it approaches the point at which it is going to disengage the infeed roller, you lift up the outfeed side of the board until it gets past the cutter. A gentle tug to ensure it continues moving at the same speed

A bigger stiffer table ought to minimize snipe, as will infeed and outfeed tables, but unless the wood is perfectly flat, it is going to move. I cannot think of a way to avoid snipe if there is any vertical bow in the board

I would say I have the snipe under control using all the tricks of the trade, the tear-out is the real problem. I have been looking at the european combination machines but the infeed and outfeed tables are non-existent and the height that you need to feed the board in seems too low for comfort.

Grain direction is what determines tear-out.

If you want a nice finish then get a drum sander. Just don't mention anything like that to Krenov...

If you can change the feed rate independently from the cutter head speed you can get a better finish without the scalloping. It might be worth the time to modify the machine if you value quality over speed. I think but don’t know from personal experience that the insert heads will greatly decrease tear out.

I have a little Inca combination machine that will leave a nearly flawless finish when sharp and adjusted correctly. Its 10” wide with typical short euro tables. Probably would not be an answer for a high volume shop. For a one man stick furniture operation its pretty great for at least the final part of the flattening and thicknessing. I don’t know how much stock you need to work, but if its not a lot you can buy one of these pretty inexpensively.

Might keep the old one and optimize it for speed and through put?

Call Hermance. Best aftermarket heads out there.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Which model Poitras do you have?
I had a 6000 12" machine that was built to last till the next ice-age. What a piece of machinery!

I believe any decent industrial machine can be adjusted to minimize snipe.
Properly set, infeed and outfeed rollers; clean, properly adjusted and lightly waxed tables all help.
If I still had my machine, I'd sure consider the shilex helical head.

But, a guy could also leave his stock a couple of inches long and trim off the sniped bit. The wood stove could use up a lot of scraps for the price of a new head ;-)

Peter

This is the real trick to tearout. Sometimes it's unavoidable, but you can reduce it in two ways. 1. Ensure the edge grain is parallel to the table (appear to ramp up as it feeds into the planer) and 2. Feed the stock into the planer on a angle... doesnt take much, maybe 5 to 15 degrees.

The drum sander is great if you have all the time in the world, and it will also leave machining marks, especially if you are using a coarse grit to surface the board. Wide belts are more practical if you're doing production work.

Just my opinion, but the carbide is for machining metal, high speed steel is hands down the best planer blade material there is.

chip out? yeah, sure, it's caused by grain angle- problem is, grain angle changes inch by inch, mm x mm if it is fiddleback- so essentially, this is total truth, but worthless in application.

You are trying to keep the knife from hooking out the chunks of wood- so a steeper knife angle -10, 12 degrees, and a deeper depth of cut will help. The chipout is on the surface, not buried in the stock. Just skimming the wood will ensure the chips are right at the finished surface- deeper the cut, the more the wood acts as it's own chip-breaker- the thicker section of waste supports the chip at the finished surface.
I have had good luck with the Byrd head. But suspect a good Tersa or Terminous head would also work really well. One of them, or maybe both, are available with HSS and carbide, with different knife angles.

Snipe- use enough feed roll pressure, make sure the table is locked solid (I put lever handle lock screws in mine, one on each gib) ,
Use an outfeed support to keep the board from levering the trailing end up into the cutterhead, and keep the pressure bar right at the limit of friction. (One of the unsung HUGE benefits of insert knives of whatever style, is the pressure bar and feed rolls can stay put with no readjusting required when changing knives.

holding up the board at each end when feeding- works well, but it is possible to lift to much- the board can be a long lever.
When planing thin stock, I use a table board milled in a concave profile, and depend on the feed rolls to push the stock flat under the cutterhead. Essentially exactly the same thing as holding the end of the board up, but the concave table does it for me. This is not gonna work on anything much more than 1/4" or 3/8" thick, and not very wide. Typically I use it on groups of 3/8" x 3/8" slats.

SBAER said:

I would say I have the snipe under control using all the tricks of the trade, the tear-out is the real problem. I have been looking at the european combination machines but the infeed and outfeed tables are non-existent and the height that you need to feed the board in seems too low for comfort.

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On the combination machines, table extensions are a must. We have a Felder AD941 on order with an aluminum outfeed extension and cast iron infeed extension. The cutterhead is their spiral SilentPower with carbide inserts.