Wood plane repair

LOIBLB · Sep 19, 2015

In the days throw away tools did not exist I'm sure this repair was common.
This plane has a good feel to it. I keep my wood planes in the house to avoid issues.
This one came my way and it feels like it could be made healthy with some TLC.

The wood bottom was a chip out of it at the slot for the blade. And the entire bottom needs to be flattened.

What would be a good method to restore back to a user plane?

dcsipo · Sep 19, 2015

LOIBLB said:
In the days throw away tools did not exist I'm sure this repair was common.
This plane has a good feel to it. I keep my wood planes in the house to avoid issues.
This one came my way and it feels like it could be made healthy with some TLC.

The wood bottom was a chip out of it at the slot for the blade. And the entire bottom needs to be flattened.

What would be a good method to restore back to a user plane?

James Krenow has a writeup on making and fixing a plane in the cabinetmakers notebook. The most important part of the plane bottom is the area in front to the blade it has to be level and provide positive contact with the wood as the blade cuts to avoid any chatter. When the bottom is chipped out or worn in front the blade one can fix it by placing an insert in place. I would use the hardest wood i can find, lignum vitae or dogwood or iron wood comes to mind, something with interlocking grain and with some natural oils would work well. hollow out the area in front of the blade leave enough side wall by making the mortice the same width as the throat. BTW is the second picture taken from looking from the front of the plane toward the back? In that case your throat is awfully large, if it is the other way around then the blade is not supported properly. here what Krenov had to say about planes

James Krenov on Handplanes - Fine Woodworking Video

these instructions contain some stuff about making the mouth of the planes.

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/BuildingaKrenovSmoother.html

You would want to adjust your plane in a similar way after you have put in inserts, if your bottom is damaged way too much you may just want to cut of a quarter inch glue on a whole new bottom a make a new mouth for the blade that fully supports the back and has a thin opening in front of the blade. Hope Stephen will chime in, he is the true experts around here on hand planes.

dee
;-D

Joe Rogers · Sep 20, 2015

As noted a duchman repair at the mouth area or a laminated new sole both will provide the needed upgrade. What is your skill level WRT woodworking? A dutchman would be a more tedious and skill necessary attempt. Other wood working tools are needed for both. How well inventoried are you?
Joe

LOIBLB · Sep 20, 2015

The Dutchman repair I don't know about.The existing wood has oil like stuff absorbed into it. So 1/4" off the bottom should expose useable wood to glue to.
I can use the band or table saw for the 1/4 inch off the bottom. Maybe use the jointer to true flatten.
Is Tightbond III ok glue on the new bottom?
To make the mouth a little smaller is a very good idea.

The 1 3/4 in. wide Stanley blade has been sharpened so much I'm looking at blade/chipbreaker replacement. This tool has been used often. Hope replacements come with a new screw in the chip breaker?

stephen thomas · Sep 20, 2015

I thought I had a couple around with dutchman repair by PO's for examples, but can't find any. It used to be fairly common to see them at fleamarkets. The typical old repair was triangular. They chiseled a mortise out from just past the width of the blade from each side to a point on the center line. This makes it relatively easy to fit the patch, & wedge it to the point from the back of the throat, before clamping it flat with a C-clamp and caul.

In the UK from the late 19th c through maybe the depression, you could get iron toe piece with a screw, to let into wooden coffin smoothers. They were then also somewhat adjustable. Such toepieces can be seen in reprints of Norris ("iron fronts for smoothing planes, #33") and maybe Spiers catalogs. Also described and shown in at least the 3rd ed (1908) of _Modern Practical Joinery_

All that said, it is hard to tell from the photos, but yours looks like the sole is a bit thin and has been flattened quite a bit in its working life. A straight on side shot would show a little better, but my guess is it is already 1/4" thinner (height) than they were shipped from the factory. The wood appears to start out about 1-7/16" or even 1-1/2" thick from the factory on most of the smoothers depending on brand and model. So adding a new sole and bringing the total finish thickness within that range would make sense. Pretty much any woodglue will work, TB3 should be fine.

Note that most of those old transitionals and woodies in general wear more in the front than the back. So over time and use, the sole ends up thicker at the heel than at the toe. Take that into account whatever cutting or repair method you use.

smt

dcsipo · Sep 20, 2015

stephen thomas said:
I thought I had a couple around with dutchman repair by PO's for examples, but can't find any. It used to be fairly common to see them at fleamarkets. The typical old repair was triangular. They chiseled a mortise out from just past the width of the blade from each side to a point on the center line. This makes it relatively easy to fit the patch, & wedge it to the point from the back of the throat, before clamping it flat with a C-clamp and caul.

In the UK from the late 19th c through maybe the depression, you could get iron toe piece with a screw, to let into wooden coffin smoothers. They were then also somewhat adjustable. Such toepieces can be seen in reprints of Norris ("iron fronts for smoothing planes, #33") and maybe Spiers catalogs. Also described and shown in at least the 3rd ed (1908) of _Modern Practical Joinery_

All that said, it is hard to tell from the photos, but yours looks like the sole is a bit thin and has been flattened quite a bit in its working life. A straight on side shot would show a little better, but my guess is it is already 1/4" thinner (height) than they were shipped from the factory. The wood appears to start out about 1-7/16" or even 1-1/2" thick from the factory on most of the smoothers depending on brand and model. So adding a new sole and bringing the total finish thickness within that range would make sense. Pretty much any woodglue will work, TB3 should be fine.

Note that most of those old transitionals and woodies in general wear more in the front than the back. So over time and use, the sole ends up thicker at the heel than at the toe. Take that into account whatever cutting or repair method you use.

smt

I think in this case the dutchman repair would have to be rectangular, to cover the chipped out area. Looking at his second set of pictures, he might be better of cleaning the sole up to clear wood, and laminating on a new sole. Cutting the mouth will be tedious. A hell a lot of work to fix an old plane

...If the mechanism is really good maybe making a whole new body is easier. I would not know till i took it apart.

dee
;-D

stephen thomas · Sep 20, 2015

Yeah, I was describing the typical"historic" repair. They had parallel sides for maybe 1/4", and then went to a triangle point.

But my actual suggestion is, it is already thin, just go ahead & cut off what you need for a good joint surface; Then glue on a new sole and bring back up to overall thickness somewhere around 1-7/16" or 1-1/2". B

Be sure to pay attention to which way the grain runs (downhill, from toe to heel; looking at the plane from the side set upright).
Also, wooden planes favor the full slab sawn face of lumber, not the QS cut as the rubbing surface. And generally, heart side up.

Beech was the preferred wood for US made planes. As has already been said, any dense, tough, interlocked grain wood will work.

smt

dcsipo · Sep 20, 2015

LOIBLB said:
The Dutchman repair I don't know about.The existing wood has oil like stuff absorbed into it. So 1/4" off the bottom should expose useable wood to glue to.
I can use the band or table saw for the 1/4 inch off the bottom. Maybe use the jointer to true flatten.
Is Tightbond III ok glue on the new bottom?
To make the mouth a little smaller is a very good idea.

The 1 3/4 in. wide Stanley blade has been sharpened so much I'm looking at blade/chipbreaker replacement. This tool has been used often. Hope replacements come with a new screw in the chip breaker?

The oil and wax is probably superficial, and does not penetrate more than 1/16". Most old english and european planes were made from hornbeam or lignum vitae. Be very careful taking off the bottom. if you chose to do it on the table saw, clamp the whole thing securely to a sled riding in the T-slot or agains the fence. You can cut it off on the bandsaw safely against the fence, but then you will have to clean it up with a hand plane or belt sander. I would avoid putting it on the jointer because it is too short to be supported properly for the cut. Remember they recommend not jointing anything shorter than 18"

...

As Stephen pointed out the sole is probably worn and resurfaced enough that you may just have to clean it up for lamination, in that case a hand plane or even a belt sander can do the trick. Get rid of the contaminated surface and glue on a new sole. I would use epoxy, or urethane glue to laminate on the new sole, reason being that PVA glues (Tightbond III is one of them) creep a bit over time and if you have no mechanical fasteners things may get out of alignment. If you want to use PVA glue i would recommend that you put a few dowels made from the same wood as the new sole into the body of the plane through the sole. Two in front of the plane and two in the back will keep it in place. Keep them as far as you can from the mouth.

dee
;-D

bruto · Sep 21, 2015

If you're not too worried about authenticity, I'd go with adding a new sole, and then putting a plate in front of the blade. It's been close to 40 years since I salvaged the two old Sargents shown here, but they've worked pretty well for a long time. On the top one, I did not have the best wood on hand, and I think it's oak. The brass was easy to do, and easy to get a nice clean edge on. The other one was done in beech, as I happened at the time to have a lot of beech in my wood lot. Both the iron and the sole are rounded at the sides, and this one was used for hogging out rough wood, usually at an angle across the grain.

By the way, as I recall, both these planes were very badly worn, and I ran them through a jointer to prepare for the new soles.

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