What's new
What's new

Wood work using a metal cutting machine?

Toot Uncommon

Plastic
Joined
Sep 17, 2010
Location
Winder, GA
I've been thinking about buying a used mill and lathe for my basement. I work for a major manufacturer of metal cutting machines and would love to use / tinker with them in my spare time. One thing I've tried to search for / look into on youtube & elsewhere is cutting wood using a metal cutting cnc like a Haas or Makino. I find hardly an info on it. There must be a reason, no?

Is it because of price? Most of my "wood cnc" search results come up with routers that appear to cut mostly flat items. Nothing very 3d.

With some of the medium size horizontal cnc's I deal with, you could take a giant 3' diameter 4' high log and cut out a life size bust of Trump if you wanted to. It might not have any practical use but it could be a real attention getter.

If someone wanted to do that with like an A51 Makino (YouTube) I think it would be capable in theory, but why are people not using wood as a material in big machines like this?
 
Most (billiards) cue makers use metal working machines, including cnc.
The small shops tend to have manual mill + lathe, some with water cooled spindles for aux attachment, like profiling. Some (many) have cnc profiling and 3 or 4 axis inlay machines, though not infrequently based on hobby weight platforms. The production guys seem to be outfitting with Haas machining centers and lathes.

(Perhaps?) unfortunately, wood technology - the way natural wood's strength and performance characteristics are biased in one axis, & the way it behaves in a dynamic climatic system - does not favor machining or building with it in "billet" produced net shapes. An awful lot of wood manufacturing is faster on conventional production machines (moulders, profilers, DE tenoners. OTOH, cnc point-to-point multi-head/multi-spindle machines do run the flat panel cabinet sector, same work now sometimes also done on multi-head routers. Since the 70's and prevalent by late 80's.

Patternmakers have evolved to 3 or 4 axis (or more) cnc routers.

People who do carving and 3d work, which is niche/specialized also gravitate that direction.

Niche furniture makers are moving more in that direction, too.
One who often famously used wood in the way you seem to imagine - great huge blocks, carved to shape - was Wendell Castle.
If you google his work and shop, starting in the 60's, at least, metal working machines were essential. By the turn of the century, digitizing was being done, and within the last dozen years before his death, 5 axis cnc based on a Faro (type) arm ("robot"). Only a few years before his death, Wendell was planning to install a 2nd robot in opposition to the first, with a rotisserie between, so all sides of a piece could be machined simultaneously.

Quite a few of us on here use metal working machines where they expedite work, and some use multi-axis cnc.

On a basic metal-working machine level, I use an 80" planer/92" bed both for metal work to build machines and fixtures, as well as woodwork like large semi-circular arcs flat on the bed, or full reeded or fluted columns set up between centers with a dividing head. Also profile pool cues between centers on the planer with a rotary axis. There's a tracer for the rail, but never set up yet....

Where did you do your research?

I work for a major manufacturer of metal cutting machines

Brand?

smt
 
There's nothing wrong with using a metal cutting machine for wood. You will just want to cover as much of the way covers and other ares you don't want dust to get into with plastic and rig up a good vacuum for it. If you plan on doing a lot of wood, get yourself a good vacuum made for wood working. It'll be much better than your typical shop vac. This will help make cleanup easier and keep your machine running in good shape. We use a Haas DT1 for 3D profiling custom ping pong paddles from wood.
 
As the photo suggests - with a nice lot of "shavings" - works perfectly fine if you are willing to clean up the mess. Seems unlikely that the coolant / chip conveyer system on a CNC machine was intended for such messes

DCP_1615.jpg
 
DMG Mori.

Part of my curiosity is that because I work on them all the time, I am well positioned to buy a used machine and put it in the basement. I'm also well positioned to use wood as material because I have an almost unlimited free supply of it. So when I went on youtube to search for others actually doing it and came up dry, I thought maybe there's some factors I'm not considering that make it impractical. I think that's what you were getting at when you said "the way natural wood's strength and performance characteristics are biased in one axis, & the way it behaves in a dynamic climatic system - does not favor machining or building with it in "billet" produced net shapes." I guess I'm looking to study the details behind that.
 
I know there are quite a few luthiers using Haas and Fadal mills to cut their guitar bodies and necks. I have not figured out how they are handling the dust/chips. The few videos that I have seen don't show any sort of dust collection. This is in production shops, so I would expect them to have something.

One of my customers has me cut their wood products because the changeover from metal tot wood in their mill is a huge pain. They have to clean everything in the machine before hand to get all the coolant taken care of. Of course the table needs cleaned, but even the rest of the machine like the spindle and toolchanger itself, they don't want the coolant or oil dripping on the part while cutting. Then once the cut the wood it takes as much or more time to clean the wood out of it to go back to cutting metal.

It is not that the machine can't do it, they just don't make any money doing it and I think that is why you don't see much info on it online. I think very few people that can get a DMG would want to put a chunk of wood in it.

If you do want to, you will probably want to build a blank from kiln dried wood vs grabbing the chunk of firewood out of the pile. You will then have a better piece to start with that you can remove the defects from and it shouldn't move as much once cut due to drying out.

Kiesel Guitars has 4 Haas VF4's, there is a higher end bass guitar company that has a Fadal, I don't recall their name right now.
 
Just did these yesterday (still in progress) on my '68 Leblond Regal for my custom chair project. Hard maple chair crossbar, cut myself a LH/RH Internal/External 7/8-8 Acme tool for the threads just because I'm a glutton for punishment.
 

Attachments

  • chair_crossbar.jpg
    chair_crossbar.jpg
    48.5 KB · Views: 122
I use my manual home-shop machines to machine wood all the time. There are several problems with the material you must overcome:

-Best to use vacuum cleaner during processing
-Depending on species the chips / dust will be sticky to various degrees.
-It will get into the every nook and cranny and stay there. Cleanup can be a challenge
-It will clog oil grooves and plumbing.
-You can't use coolant with most species without changing the nature of the stock.
-In most cases cutting speeds are way higher than most metal machining equipment.
-Grain causes problems with strength. For example, I have to use climb milling in most cases to keep edges from breakout. Sometimes you must start at the ends.

Overall I think it could be possible to use CNC metal cutting machines to do woodworking, however, the programming and processing would be very different because of the nature of the material. Hardwoods are more forgiving but also more expensive, sometimes competing with metals or composites in pricing.

Good luck with your experiments and keep us informed of your progress.


Best Regards,
Bob
 
Not that long ago it was common to use soft wood to prove your paper tape program or for training the rookies.
Now perhaps more done with plastics.
Lots and lots of vacuum.
As noted oil drips will ruin your day and the swarf sucks oil on the ways like kitty litter.
High end cncs not often used because they are overkill for the job. Like swatting mosquitoes with a sledge hammer.
Best speeds and feeds are out of sight. Aluminum cutting with PCD type things and not many older cncs can do this.
Bob
 
The Louisville Slugger factory uses CNC Lathes to make all the MLB bats they make for players. Prototype are made by hand. The factory tour is worth the time if you're in Louisville, KY with a couple of extra hours.
 
Overall I think it could be possible to use CNC metal cutting machines to do woodworking, however, the programming and processing would be very different because of the nature of the material.

Bob

The programming and processing, no matter the material, should be done with that material in mind when you program it. I will process uhmw and polypro different than other plastics. I will program maple parts different than say pine. Even in metal you will process them differently.

Just because you use a cnc to cut wood doesn't mean you can throw out the fundamental procedures for cutting wood. You still have to cut cross or end grain first, then along the grain second or you will blow out the ends. You have to use a backer when drilling holes through or it could blow out. You have to do these same things on a manual machine.

As for the cnc wood router vs cnc mill, my cnc router has a Fanuc OM control on it, it it the same exact control as was on milling machines of the same era, it has the same capability. Komo (the mtb) set the parameters to allow higher rpm and feedrates than most mills had at that time. Cam software is the same as for mills, one of my customers I set up is using Mastercam Mill and we are using a generic Fanuc 3 axis mill post processor to make the code.

The main reason most wood shops don't use mills is the work envelope. Even generic furniture parts that are made of solid wood are often times too big to fit in the work envelope of a mill even a standard 20x40. In my lifetime sheet goods have become the mainstay for most wood products and those come in feet x feet measurements. Standard Baltic Birch ply is 5x5, and of course most common is 4x8, but a close second anymore in commercial use is 5x10ft and 5x12ft is also used alot and there are sheets out to 16ft long if you want them.

When you start looking at 5 axis stuff, the things they are used for in the wood world are typically on the large scale of things. Chair and stair parts can get big and need lots of room to get around the parts and fixtures. Curved plywood many times has very large molds and trimming fixtures, think of things like bent ply booths at fast food joints. They are also used for thermoforming molds. A local plant here in town makes things like the duck ponds for your yard, livestock tanks and tubs and they also do slides for playground equip so they need to be big. The only cnc mills I have seen with those envelopes are in aerospace and no body wants to pay their shop rate to put normal wood products on them.
 
Years ago a rep for NSK linear bearings told me that they used wood chips to test NSK bearing lube because the wood chips and dust soaked up the oil and they felt it was the worst thing for machine ways over time. Something to think about when adapting metal cutting machines for wood cutting.

John
 
Years ago a rep for NSK linear bearings told me that they used wood chips to test NSK bearing lube because the wood chips and dust soaked up the oil and they felt it was the worst thing for machine ways over time. Something to think about when adapting metal cutting machines for wood cutting.

John

Nope, cut some Corian and see how that dust soaks up oil. I have used that dust to clean up oil spills.
 
There is no reason not to use a metal-working machine for working wood it suitable cutting tools are used. A while back, my son wanted to replace the stock on his high speed air rifle. He bought a new, laminated stock that had an undersized trough for the barrel. The barrel is 1" diameter all along the length. I used a 1" ball mill on my milling machine and successfully opened up he trough to inlet the barrel down into the stock. It worked very nicely with minimal fitting after the work.

I also do guitar work time to time. A friend wanted to install a truss rod into the neck of a new guitar that he was building. He wanted a 3/16" notch cut 3/8" deep for a carbon fiber truss rod. I built a wooden fixture to hold the blank neck and successfully cut the notch along the length of the neck. I used a 3/16" carbide end mill, although high speed steel would have worked as well.

As a side benefit, the wood dust and shavings will clean all of the oil off of the milling machine table. Just have your shop vacuum handy and re ready to re-lube your milling table.
 
Hoagie Carmichael built his fly rods exclusively on metal machines. Try finding one for sale now.....
 
A (perhaps) surprising number of people who work wood also use gun drills. Musical pipe makers of all sorts. Pool cue makers, to core butts and to lighten shafts, etc. Air is used instead of hydraulic fluid for chip evacuation. I've got a bunch of them from .250 through maybe 15/16 & up to 28" deep. That said, i've not used any yet.

smt
 








 
Back
Top