yates american table saw

My first post in the woodworking machinery category.
I have a number of vintage woodworking machines.
One inparticular is an Yates American dual arbor rolling table table saw. Rack and pinion rip fence with fine adjustment, Quadrant in the table with all the standard angles with pin holes and all the degrees stamped in the rolling table. I also have a table extension allowing me to rip or crosscut 54 inches from the blade. It has 2 5 hp 3 phase motors, direct drive, and all the extra arbors and spacers for dado stacking and blades.
I know you all will want pictures, but in the mean time and by the way it is in quite nice condition, needs a little paint. What, all things considered, would anybody offer a speculation on its value. Please don't say it is worth whatever i can get for it. Lets call it insurance value.
Thanks for reading. My name is Clyde, I'm crowding 72, a self taught woodworker from shop in high school and love collecting and using vintage machinery.

I know exactly what saw you are talking about, it sounds very complete, but unfortunately the good old cast iron table saws don't bring much, especially when for about the same money can go buy a saw stop and feel all warm and fuzzy about be compliant.

So realistically 2 to 2500. Imo, they are worth way more than people will pay.

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Mr.Green said:

I know exactly what saw you are talking about, it sounds very complete, but unfortunately the good old cast iron table saws don't bring much, especially when for about the same money can go buy a saw stop and feel all warm and fuzzy about be compliant.

So realistically 2 to 2500. Imo, they are worth way more than people will pay.

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Finding the same thing.

Pics would be nice and helpful. I’m left wondering if the OP’s saw is similar to a Wadkin PK. Maybe it’s totally different?

L7

Wadkin PK does not have a double arbor, but I imagine the sliding table design is similar

Its probably a G89 or 91. Very nice saws, just no real value due to them being in that new saw stop price range.

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Hey Clyde, thanks for sharing, my name is Austin Helm. I’m 27, and I’m a greenwood chairmaker who also has a deep and abiding love for big vintage machinery. I too own a Yates-American G91 tablesaw, and I’m am very curious about your table extension and your quadrant. I have a quadrant as well, but a previous owner altered it to fit another saw. Other than that, the saw is complete with the original miter, miter slot filler strip, left hand miter, an extra left hand miter, complete rack and pinion fence, and perfect condition blade guard with the counter weight and all that. The sliding table moves like a dream. What an amazing machine, it looks like a potbellied pig. Anyways, I’m wondering what the possibility of you sharing some photos of your machine would be. It would be greatly appreciated if you could. I’m also wondering what your thoughts on potentially letting me make a mold of your quadrant. They are wonderful, wonderful machines, and I’d love to see another one even more complete than mine.

G-89 is not a double arbor saw, as described by OP.

To the OP: If it is a G-30 tilt table, it is a truly beautiful saw, but you will probably have a problem getting even $1,000 for it.
Someone might buy it to rob some stuff - like the quadrant, fence, and table extension.

G20 or G91 might get the right interested party to drive across the country to acquire it. Probably still under $3,000 though.
You would best advertise it on a more woodworking focused forum FS section to optimize the number of old iron woodworking machine junkies to spread the word. For G91 start at $5K in case you are lucky and the right guy sees it, but be prepared to take half, or even less than half that to actually sell the machine in many markets.

The idea of double arbor saws was cool, especially in the days of steel tooth blades.
The appeal is a little less today, especially with DMD.
DMD is cool, too, and probably none smoother.
However the appeal is less today, because of the limited height capacity.
For instance, the G91 with a 16" blade will cut off a true 4-1/8" depth.
My SCMI roller top with an independent arbor and belt drive, will cut off 6" with the same 16" blade.
Plus it will cross-cut a full sheet of ply. The G91 will cross cut about 30"
Then, when you need a dado set or other cutters, the DMD saws require large dia ("expensive") sets.
A G91 requires an 8" dia cutter just to reach flush with the table, so you'd have to find a 10" set to do actual work with. Or 12" to use it on the tilt.
"Modern" non-DMD/independent arbor saws will take more common sizes, though the sets may need to be bored for larger saws.

The old DMD roller top saws are ideal and optimized for someone who makes a lot of parts that require multiples of small angular & compound - angular pieces, including for segments of circular arches, and for segmented turnings. They do that better than modern saws that have the roller tables set a distance from the blade, and have less dedicated hardware like the quadrant set ups.

Until we know which model saw it is, there's nothing but rampant speculation here.

smt

PS: You mentioned insurance value. My business insurance policy lists major machines, and is an agreed value policy, just like my airplane. You decide how much it would cost you to replace it, and whether it would have to be the exact same model and accessories. If so, your insurance value might be $10,000 if it makes you feel good & don't mind paying the premium, but don't expect to get 1/2 that in an auction. Probably 1/5 or less at auction.

stephen thomas said:

G-89 is not a double arbor saw, as described by OP.

To the OP: If it is a G-30 tilt table, it is a truly beautiful saw, but you will probably have a problem getting even $1,000 for it.
Someone might buy it to rob some stuff - like the quadrant, fence, and table extension.

G20 or G91 might get the right interested party to drive across the country to acquire it. Probably still under $3,000 though.
You would best advertise it on a more woodworking focused forum FS section to optimize the number of old iron woodworking machine junkies to spread the word. For G91 start at $5K in case you are lucky and the right guy sees it, but be prepared to take half, or even less than half that to actually sell the machine in many markets.

The idea of double arbor saws was cool, especially in the days of steel tooth blades.
The appeal is a little less today, especially with DMD.
DMD is cool, too, and probably none smoother.
However the appeal is less today, because of the limited height capacity.
For instance, the G91 with a 16" blade will cut off a true 4-1/8" depth.
My SCMI roller top with an independent arbor and belt drive, will cut off 6" with the same 16" blade.
Plus it will cross-cut a full sheet of ply. The G91 will cross cut about 30"
Then, when you need a dado set or other cutters, the DMD saws require large dia ("expensive") sets.
A G91 requires an 8" dia cutter just to reach flush with the table, so you'd have to find a 10" set to do actual work with. Or 12" if you want to use it on the tilt.
"Modern" non-DMD/independent arbor saws will take more common sizes, though the sets may need to be bored for larger saws.

The old DMD roller top saws are ideal and optimized for someone who makes a lot of parts that require multiples of small angular pieces, including for segments of circular arches, and for segmented turnings. They do that better than modern saws that have the roller tables set a distance from the blade, and have less dedicated hardware like the quadrant set ups.

Until we know which model saw it is, there's nothing but rampant speculation here.

smt

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OP actually verbatim said that his saw is a double arbor saw. Not sure what you’re on about. G91 will take a “20 blade if you just use one of the arbors.

OP actually verbatim said that his saw is a double arbor saw

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Obviously we both know that.
My response was to:

Mr Green said

Its probably a G89 or 91. Very nice saws, just no real value due to them being in that new saw stop price range.

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You said:

Not sure what you’re on about. G91 will take a “20 blade if you just use one of the arbors.

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G91 will take 20" blades (& IIRC, one at a time in that dia?) but then the arbor cannot be tilted.
So you need a 20" blade to cut off the 6" stock that an independent arbor 16" saw will cut with a 16" blade. And the IA saw can be tilted at that depth.
There's the additional point that 8" diameter is consumed just to reach flush with the table, so if dado sets or other cutters are anticipated, (uncommon) larger dia sets are necessary to effect work.

I love those old saws and used similar Tannies.
But they don't have a lot of excess value, starting with the 3ph requirement.
And their capacities are specialized in terms of much modern work.
As i said, there is still not really anything better if the object is accurate segments and repetitive angular and compound angular work, primarily in solid wood.

G91?

Looks like OP has vanished without posting promised pictures.
.
However, coincidentally, i've been to woodworking shops recently with very similar Oliver 260-D's.
One owner mentioned that R & T has a couple in inventory, so i called.
They are rather proud of them & of course all dealers price optimistically and negotiate down from there.

The "untested/as is" version looks complete but has battle scars. Pix show it to include the quadrant, r& p/production rip fence, stock Oliver overhead blade guard, one miter gage. might be missing the crank to rotate the blades into position. $7900.

Unless the person who quoted mixed up the numbers, the "tested" saw looks a little better overall condition, but does not appear to include a quadrant or guard, and might be missing the arbor washers and nuts? listed $8795

Both dealer saws have the castings and bracketry for splitters, but not the splitters themselves.

Or you can bone up on the various DA slider saw models (Oliver, Tannewitz, Yates, etc), watch the IRS auctions, and sometimes find better versions for a fraction of the listed prices depending how far you are willing to travel. If you just need an old time roller top & quadrant (without double arbors) where the table can be adjusted toward the blade (or vice-versa); add names like Greenlee, Northfield, Wadkin, and some German machines, etc.

An interesting feature of DA saws is that the blade height, is regulated by angular position around the central pivot.
So for a given height, the blade can be either toward the rear or close to the front. For shallow depths of cut, this can be somewhat exaggerated.
Full height will be only at the center/vertical position.

The Oliver 260 design had several problems so care is needed when looking at one. The tilt trunnions tend to be weak ( unusual for Oliver ) so damage can occur if the saw was tilted a lot or rotated when titled. The rotation was by a worm gear that tended to gum up with sawdust resulting in damaged parts so a buyer needs to verify that the mechanisms are all working well. The electrical contacts can also foul but that is fixable whereas a broken casting isn't. Dave

Greenwoodchairmaker said:

OP actually verbatim said that his saw is a double arbor saw. Not sure what you’re on about. G91 will take a “20 blade if you just use one of the arbors.

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That's incorrect. They will accept an 18" blade, but YA recommended not using larger than 16" blades due to the speed of the motor.

Really nice saws, but Stephan is correct, would probably be tough to get $1k for them. It is a monster, 5HP direct drive motor running at 3600 rpm.

The OP has all the bells and whistles, and if he has the horseshoe with both left and right miters, you're golden. I run a Biesmeyer fence on mine. The original fence is heavy and not as accurate, IMO.

This is the only brochure saved, I got it from Yates American. Since the time when they gave it to me, they sent me cease and desist letters for all of my Yates American Machines and told me to destroy them because they do not meet UL requirements. I threw them out in the trash because they were no good...

(look under "SAW" in the Specifications)

As I like to say, my table saw cuts hot dogs...caveat emptor!

traditional-tools said:

That's incorrect. They will accept an 18" blade, but YA recommended not using larger than 16" blades due to the speed of the motor.

Really nice saws, but Stephan is correct, would probably be tough to get $1k for them. It is a monster, 5HP direct drive motor running at 3600 rpm.

The OP has all the bells and whistles, and if he has the horseshoe with both left and right miters, you're golden. I run a Biesmeyer fence on mine. The original fence is heavy and not as accurate, IMO.

This is the only brochure saved, I got it from Yates American. Since the time when they gave it to me, they sent me cease and desist letters for all of my Yates American Machines and told me to destroy them because they do not meet UL requirements. I threw them out in the trash because they were no good...

(look under "SAW" in the Specifications)

http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/782/1898.pdf

As I like to say, my table saw cuts hot dogs...caveat emptor!

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The brochure you posted is something I’ve read through more times than I’d care to think about. Quite thankful it exists. The G91 will absolutely accept a 20” blade, it says so twice in the brochure. It is however true that the arbor cannot be tilted with a blade of that diameter.

Greenwoodchairmaker said:

The brochure you posted is something I’ve read through more times than I’d care to think about. Quite thankful it exists. The G91 will absolutely accept a 20” blade, it says so twice in the brochure. It is however true that the arbor cannot be tilted with a blade of that diameter.

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Wow, didn't know that...I wouldn't use an 18" blade on it myself, although I do have one...it's an old HSS blade. A double 20" with a sliding table...that's much nicer than the G-89. I have a number of 14" crosscut blades I had re-bored to the arbor size. I also have a number of 16" rip blades. Those are all carbide. I have the cast fence without the quadrant setup, but use a Biesmeyer and found an original miter gauge on Ebay a number of years ago...I have the original overarm blade guard, mine has huge slices that look like it through shrapnel...but the funny thing is it wasn't just once, it was done over and over...I'm not a huge table saw person, I often opt for hand tools or use a band saw, but no denying the table saw cuts square panels. The G-89 is a 5HP direct drive, does the G-91 have a 7-1/2HP motor on it? My B-44 has a 7-1/2HP Louis Allis. All 3 of mine have Louis Allis motors, some of the first motors to be used on woodworking machines.

I have a B-44 planer, J6 jointer, and always wanted a Y-30 or a Y-36 snowflake...but I ended up with a 36" Moak band saw. One day maybe I'll find a 16" or 24" YA jointer, but they're pretty rare, 12" is more common on the Number 1.

All of them cut hot dogs!

EDIT: PS where did you get that G-91 brochure? Did you get that from Sarah at YA? I think I have the cease and desist letter they sent me.

Love Hate with old machinery and I have brought a few back from dead. Like raging fire and some melted parts, but frozen water source so cooled slowly.
But when/as a woodworker and needing to get stuff done? 2 or more table saws was a better answer. Because dual arbor is so cool, but 2 or more saws allowed at least one setup to stay, or allowed a second worker. Back in the day you had rip blades, crosscut blades. Screw that. Many woodworking pilgrims/craftsman are in love with the process and having fine old machines. I'm not much different. But much more care for results and finished products out the door.
These days the older machines I love are German made. Newer German machines too. PORSCHE makes them. 355, 414, 435, 453, 520, 550 HP. They git it done for me. 600+ HP soon too.