Haas VF2SS or Hurco VM1

[Madlab]

Thanks Tumbleweed, Ramona, is that near San Diego?
My in-laws live in Jamul, Nice area, Next time we in the Cult of Haas get together we may have to go to Ramona to sacrifice some goats and stuff .-matt

Haas Cult Motto:
“In St. Gene we Trust, All other machines will Bust!"

 

[JohnW]

Okay, I should rephrase, "I think Hurco controller offers much better value for me than Haas."

The base memory for Hurco controller is 8MB vs 256K for Haas. Hurco has 400 Block Look-Ahead vs Haas's HSM at 80 Blocks.

For additinal $3.5K Hurco comes with 64MB, 2GB HD, FDD, and ISNC(to import G codes), Network is addtional $1.3K.

For Haas, the 20GB HD/USB/Net is $3K, $2K for HSM, $1K for 16MB, $1K for Rotation/Scaling. FDD additinal $.5K.

Of course, paper specs do not translate to real world performanc. I really like Haas but am beginning to lean toward the VM1 for the 1st machine. I can always go for the VF2SS later if there is a need.

Two days ago I thought I was going to get the VF-2SS for sure. I'm quite impressed by its 12K direct-drive spindle, sidemount 24tool changer, and 1400ipm rapid.

 

[JohnW]

Believe me, I want to be in the Haas cult as well. Haas is inspirational, an fine example of US innovation and passion competing globally with US based manufacturing. It seems that every year Haas machines are getting bigger and bigger. Who knows, maybe in the future Haas will be in the same league as the Japanese manufacturers

 

[doug925]

For additinal $3.5K Hurco comes with 64MB, 2GB HD, FDD, and ISNC(to import G codes), Network is addtional $1.3K.

So the Hurco does not run G-code?!?!?
Humph...
What does it use?
Sorry, if I am being dense...
Doug.

 

[Tumbleweed Tim]

“In St. Gene we Trust, All other machines will Bust!"

St. Gene spoke to me thru my prototrak control and said for me to tell all loyal followers (sheep) it is time to drink the coolantaid.

 

[Seekins]

OK Hurco dudes... John keeps saying the Hurco controler is better

Im not a hurko dude but i seen one once

I don’t know that it is better. Maybe it is in some areas but not really. It doesn’t get much simpler/ easier than a haas controller. It depends on what you intend to do with the machine and what your able to do. We messed with the Hurko at Westec and it seems like a great machine and I would own one. I was Impressed with its quality and abilities.

Personally I like g-code and don’t need or want the ability to do any conversational programming. Its a language that I don’t want to learn and cant read with other machines. I have a hard enough time with English and g-code as it is. (Yep im use’n mikrosopht word to type this)

The only advantage I could see over the haas control was the hurko controller is quick and strait forward for programming 2d…whoo hoo…..what happens if you need to modify the funky code?... And its simple 2d. I can crank out the most complicated 2D program just as fast if not faster with onecnc (3D too ). I can save it and edit it all I want too. If I decide to run it on a haas or anything else I can because its not hurko speak. Its standard G-code.

You don’t need to have the usb/extra memory and whatever else comes with the 3,000 upgrade if you use a good DNC program. You might want it if you are building complex 3D molds or something. I don’t know about the look ahead. How fast can you go with a 8,000 rpm spindle?

Either way you decide to go you will be getting a good machine. I got the haas because parts and service are close by. A machine that’s down isn’t good for anything but a headache.

 

[Dave K]

I don't know if this is an accurate statement but you may want to look into this. If the Hurco uses dxf files to draw out a tool path, it may need that extra memory just to be equal to the haas. The haas control only needs to hold a certain amount of "characters" instead of having an ability to hold drawings.

Also, if you don't mind the slower spindle speed of the hurco, then a better comparison might be the Haas vf2 instead of the SS. Their standard vf2 still has 1000 ipm rapids which is faster than the hurco.

 

[Tumbleweed Tim]

Hurco will take post from cam, so do you really need anything else?

 

[mill hand]

I was raised on matsuras. every shop I ever worked in had fanuc/yasnac or fanuc style controls.
well except for the giant Wotan I use to run but it was g code.
I am from the school were a very expensive milling machine spindle should be running parts not fiddling around on it programing.

prototrac 2 axis bridgeport style machines have there place in the shop.

 

[JohnW]

Hurco is very big on their conversational control. They sued Haas over it and won a few years ago. . . amazing what you find when researching online.

Hurco's conversationally generated codes are cannot be save as regular G code text files for export. The $500 ISNC option allows the Hurco controller to import G code text files. To export G codes generated using Hurco's conversational system you will need the $4.5K desktop software. I guess that will only happen if you write codes using Hurco's conversational control then export to a non-Hurco machine. The DXF import is a $2.5K option and I didn't look into it.

A nice feature on the Hurco controller is the touch screen monitor. You can tap on a tool path from the preview screen and that portion of the code will be displayed. Maybe other system already has this feature, but for someone who learned CNC with a Bridgeport Series I then a Fadal 88 controller I was amazed.

Like what Seekins mentioned, Do I really need Hurco's controller if I only have 8K spindle with 750 rapid? and can I utilize VF2SS's 12k spindle and 1400 rapid with only 256KB of memory?

 

[Tumbleweed Tim]

Do I really need Hurco's controller if I only have 8K spindle with 750 rapid?

Yes, cause the machine won't run worth a darn without it.

can I utilize VF2SS's 12k spindle and 1400 rapid with only 256KB of memory?

Spindle will hit 12K and machine will rapid no problem with less than 256KB memory.

I was raised on matsuras

I aint gona touch it, but I thought about it.

Sorry, just felt like being a smart ass. No harm intended.

 

[mill hand]

lol no problem man , I am a old dog set in my ways. haha

 

[Tumbleweed Tim]

Yeh mill hand, I don't know what the hecks gotten into me. all of a sudden everything is funny. Anyway, most machinist have a pretty good sense of humor and one I read here wile back got me rolling on the floor. I went and looked for it but it's gone. Was in a thread from somebody wanting Sil Plates for a car made. I think it was whipping boy and it went something about" I spent 5 years cleaning up my 1900ish lathe and now I am going to make a sharp pointy stick and poke the cat with it" That made my day. Usually I am very careful not to go were someone might take it wrong, but I remember a guy telling me once “I cut my teeth on a Warner Swassy” and I replied “How did you chuck em up”

They should have a list for the funny things said here, cause over the years I have read some real funny stuff on this board.

Any way in keeping with the topic, here is some info on the Hurco control options pertinent to this discussion I think:
Hurco control options
ISNC:
Enhances the existing Hurco NC dialect with a more powerful NC programming option. This software package adheres to either the ANSI/EIA RS-244-D standard terminology for BNC mode or the FANUC 0™ programming standard for ISNC mode. In addition, the NC programming facilities were designed to allow the operator to use as much of the Ultimax Conversational programming system as possible. As a result, most of the screens are the same for both the NC and the Conversational programming languages. This allows for a smooth transition between the two dialects

Industry Standard NC Macro Package: (applies to NC Programming)
The NC Macro Package (NCMP) option provides features that enhance productivity and aid in producing smaller, more powerful, and easier to maintain NC programs. NCMP features include variables; subprogram calls, macros, user-defined codes, mathematical equations and address expressions, and M99 jump statements. The NCMP option requires the presence of the ISNC option.

 

[Bryan W]

Stop the madness!! The standard memory on any Haas machine is 1MB. They have not had 256k since 1998.