I don't understand why everybody always posts....looking for a budget CNC.
How about.... Looking for a machine for home use for under $XXXXX.XX?
Somebody might have exactly what you are looking for but you are keeping your budget a secret.
I didnt post a budget, because I wasnt asking if people had a machine or looking for a machine... I was asking about the differences in controls - kinda - so I could understand if certain machines would meet my need/current knowledge. I figured it was irrelevant info... never really thought about posting that info on the chance someone had something that would fit... In that light, my budget - from ground zero to fully operational and tooled for my basic needs is an absolute max of $15k (machine, shipping, vice(s), tooling, holders. I would love to have a 4th even if its just positional instead of a full 4th - but that is likely far outside the budget.)
I have really been hoping to stumble onto a 40x20ish VMC with a 10k spindle - which is where I have been focusing my search (thinking Fadal would be where Id find something). Id rather have more capacity than I need - then grossly under-machined. But - for the products I currently need to do, I could easily suffice with a 10x10x7 work envelope.
Secondly, its not for home use - "bonafide" business - been slowly crawling up from nothing since 2002 - started as a side thing in the mudroom of the house with a cheap chinese mill/drill and an idea.... Just very small - providing for a niche market, in a small town, trying to stretch the wings a little, and being small enough that banks arent interested in financing. I guess if quantity of work is what separates me into home/hobby - then I could very well be. If this was for home use, I wouldnt be worrying about it being able to make money for its payments and make me a wage, and would probably research less and buy sooner - and just learn as I go.
Yep.. post a ball park budget you're looking at ...
Also, your questions will actually require a conversation with people. From your descriptions.... a Brother, Robodrill, Tsugami and Kitamura would all work in those applications. Many of these "driling" machines can certainly do some mill work. If you were looking to do some serious hogging... something else might be in order.
Conversational is not available on just any machine so that may play a factor. Gcode is everywhere (pretty much). Sounds like you need something with some speeds at both the spindle and feed so control software options will need to be discussed. Along with all this, volum of parts, variety of parts, multi-axis parts, etc, etc.
Really though, you should arrange a "sit down" with someone you know in the business to get the vast questions answered. But most of us are happy to help you out... How about a little more info on what it is you're doing (part wise that is)? A little more detail....
Oh how Id love to have someone I could sit down with... Buy a steak and some beers and pick their brain, or go visit their shop and see the machines and learn... I have two friends that have been lending the helping hand and holding mine as I have tried to learn this stuff and find a machine over the last couple years. The problem comes with familiarity... Thats why I posted here, and read a bunch of the Brother threads, trying to glean some info from them, but the questions were usually too specific that they went over my head or werent applicable. I guess Im just trying to figure out, if something like a Brother with conversational control could still do what I need - since I have no idea how they operate - I cant evaluate it. I know I can learn Gcode for what ever, did it the hard way with the Okuma. Im sure I can learn the conversational too... but can it do what I need it to do or is it limited to very strict functions?
More detail - CAN DO!
Anyone familiar with duck calls? Particularly - J frame aka Arkansas Style? One of the main tasks will be cutting the tone board.
(note: not my pic, I dont have one handy so I just grabbed on from Anatra Calls on the Refuge Forums)
It starts turned profile on the one end and a .625" cylinder on the other - need to cut that profile on the cylinder end out (and will have to figure a way to deal with the radiused slot at the back of the cork notch, but even if I can just cut the profile, I can file the radiused slot square.
Quantity, unknown, I do a lot of turning for my customers, and get regular requests to cut sound boards, but without a VMC, I cant help them. When I do turning, its usually 20-50 parts per customer order, and I probably have 40-50 customers a year right now. I think that would go up if I could do soundboards.
The other product, I am not really willing to divulge too much on just yet as its a new idea and not been introduced, but the prototypes I have made on my Wells745 - I made from 1.5x.625 bar 6061 about 3.3" long. Without 4th axis, it would likely need done in 5 different ops. Basic shape - take a 1.5" hexagon (pardon my poor geometrical descriptions) cut it in half vertically and widen it out to OAL of 3.3 from left point to right - and it would stand .625 if laying on a table. There would be some thru holes threaded on the face, a couple 1/4" slots 1/2" long, and a couple 3/8 blind holes. Then on one edge a 5/16 hole thru, and counter bored for a SHCS thru the 1.5" width - on the center of the .625 thicknes (think drilling thru the side of a piece of 1.5" plate then a 5/16 slot milled out to one edge from that bore center. Then on the opposite side some 1/4-28 blind threads, and on two opposing 45° edges, a blind 3/8-16 thread bout 1" deep, and yet another 45° edge, a 7/16 blind hole running parallel to the length of the part - about 2" deep. It can be done on a manual, with lots of fixtures and about 6 mounts of the parts and lots of time setting up each op (took me about 6 hours to make 4 of them using two vices - one mounted straight and the other at a 45° angle. Without a 4th, I dont think I could reduce the number of mounts, but it would sure speed things up because with tool changes it would rock through the most complex face which has the holes, threads, milling and blind holes. Its a new product, so no idea on quantity. Blanks could be cut pretty close to size, so I dont see any need for major hogging of AL.
From there, everything else is "round the shop" work, tinkering and dinking. Im in a farming community, so I would have some repair work that might be done on the machine, which is why I was hoping for a 40x20 size, but right now, all that is clear blue sky, the duck call and the aluminum parts are things I got right now.
At least you are doing home-work. Cool.
Why not find one of the Fadals that are going for nearly give-a-way prices?
Rent or borrow a flat-bed..... have a rode-trip.
Bring it home........and expand your horizons.
Conversationals isn't "vs" G-code. I was mistaken to beleive that once.
It's all just languge.
A good controll does it's job regardless.
From my niew-point the major difference is line-of-code, sentance-structure.
G-Code per your liking, conversational is generally "fill-in the-blank"
Heidenhain for instance is very powerfull. BUT
You write it exactly as it asks for it. That's all no biggy!,
Good Luck
m1m
Trust me Ive been looking. So far - of what I have found, I could get the machine, but then the tooling and setup and transport, and so on would get me out of my budget. I can haul up to 7000lbs on my flat bed, and between the two forklifts and 3 JCB telehandlers of a friend of mine, we can get er off... but I dont know if Im comfortable with a 2000 mile round trip with it - not to mention paying the diesel and time lost in the drive, it might pay to have it trucked in (I also have a day job during the week at about 20-30 hrs a week). Ive found my budget, though it seems large to me, is not what it needs to be to get a good machine, get it here, get it tooled up, and running. Ive found various Fadals on ebay and such, usually the price range I can afford is from less than "suggested" sellers, or the machine has a noise, or needs this n that, or the seller knows nothing about it, or there is a huge rigging fee along with shipping. It seems Im just on the edge of being able to do something with the budget I have to stick to.
I guess it just comes down to learning a little bit about what a Brother control might expect for a program, and knowing what machines may or may not handle light milling.
Can anyone share with me a simple program from a Brother conversational machine and its equivalent in G code? See if I can follow it? Or maybe a list of the generic commands for a Brother conversational so that by knowing the commands I know what it can do?
My interest in the Brother machine came around by the addition of the new aluminum product idea and having bumped into a TC225 that comes with tooling, is not too far away, and would eat about 1/2 my budget. My thinking, get it, use it to make money, take that money, get a 4020 down the road.... as long as it will do what I need.
Thanks for all the input - Im still learning, and have a hard head... so feel free to beat me bout the head and shoulders if Im being too dense.
Wade