Tips to look for on buying used VMC

Hey all,
I have a chance to pick up a used Kitamura Mycenter 1, 1993 vintage, with Yasnac I 80 M controller, 13,000 rpm spindle,7.5 hp, manual pallet changer, and load of BT35 tool holders. I do know the machine has been sitting for a over a few years. The used machine dealer is asking 10k for it, but would probably come down some more. My experience with CNC is very limited, and non existent on a VMC. The dealer knows nothing on how to program it, nor do I. What are things I would need to look for and check out on this machine? Thanks in advance for any info.....Rusty

PARTS AND SUPPORT!!!!

I know nothing of that particular machine, but the first thing I would do is search here or
google "searchterm site:practicalmachinist.com" for that control and for that machine...

You need to know that when your machine goes down at 2am on a Sunday morning, you have a place
to go, HERE, and be back up and running by 3am... Will you be able to order parts on Monday morning
and have them there by Tuesday.. Will you be able to afford the parts?? PARTS and SUPPORT, without
those 2 things, you might as well just buy a boat anchor.

If its been sitting, did they back up the parameters??

For me, personally.. The Yasnac control would scare me..

rustedhooks said:

Hey all,
I have a chance to pick up a used Kitamura Mycenter 1, 1993 vintage, with Yasnac I 80 M controller, 13,000 rpm spindle,7.5 hp, manual pallet changer, and load of BT35 tool holders. I do know the machine has been sitting for a over a few years. The used machine dealer is asking 10k for it, but would probably come down some more. My experience with CNC is very limited, and non existent on a VMC. The dealer knows nothing on how to program it, nor do I. What are things I would need to look for and check out on this machine? Thanks in advance for any info.....Rusty

Click to expand...

LOL used machine dealer is asking 10k , they always do ask some crazy numbers , do you realize it is 25 years old ... with BT35 spindle it is not worth much and I80 has a poor support.. well that’s my opinion.

Have them power it up, if everything looks ok, offer them 4k for it.

Yeah, not too sure about cash wise but BT35 sure isn't that common. Whenever you think you have enough tooling/holders multiply that by 2 and then only will you realsie that you don't have enough.

A few threads below this one, there is a Thread: Kitamura Mycenter 1 Help Please

Been up there since 10:30 last night, so 10 hours or so, and only had 1
view... That kind of blows the "Support" part out of the water.

Bobw said:

A few threads below this one, there is a Thread: Kitamura Mycenter 1 Help Please

Been up there since 10:30 last night, so 10 hours or so, and only had 1
view... That kind of blows the "Support" part out of the water.

Click to expand...

Yes it does. 80's 90's Kitamura and Matsuura made some really nice machines. But with Yaskawa's support for their Yasnac control going down wouldnt buy one right now.
I have a 94 Matsuura with I80 last time they sent a man to fix it made me send the whole NC rack to them charged me 6K and the machine still didnt run....finely got if fixed by someone else... but it was down for over 3 months. I would hate to do it but oNe more break like that and it is scrap yard.

Yes I know the machine is old, but my understanding is Kitamura is a solid machine when properly cared for. Im asking for anything might pertain specifically to this model of machine and controller.

Dealers, as a rule, ask about double what something is worth. If he's asking 10k, it's probably worth around 5K. Like Mtndew said, if he can get it up and running, offer him 4K. If you can run half a dozen or so jobs through it, it'll probably pay for itself before it goes down. But when it does go down, it's going to be down for good.

rustedhooks said:

Yes I know the machine is old, but my understanding is Kitamura is a solid machine when properly cared for. Im asking for anything might pertain specifically to this model of machine and controller.

Click to expand...

see post #7

But with Yaskawa's support for their Yasnac control going down wouldnt buy one right now.
I have a 94 Matsuura with I80 last time they sent a man to fix it made me send the whole NC rack to them charged me 6K and the machine still didnt run.

Click to expand...

For an older machine you need a good, experienced CNC tech and have a decent working relationship with that person. A good one might be hard to find in your area, but is worth the search.

You need the documentation!!! Without a wiring diagram, a ladder diagram, and parameter list (CNC and PLC), your tech won't be able to keep it running. Machine builders operation manual and a parts list are really helpful too. If those documents are not with the machine or not easily obtained, it really cuts down the value of the machine. At least half IMO.

It's been about 5 years since the last time I needed anything for a Yasnac I80. At that time parts were no problem from Yaskawa. There are also other sources.

If you are sorta elecrically savvy you can fix many of the issues that crop up with older machines. It is much more common that trouble is with a switch or sensor or solenoid than the CNC itself. On an older CNC, the power supply a frequent trouble spot. The capacitors dry out and the power gets noisy. Noisy power can cause a bunch of weird problems. Caps are cheap and on old power supplies they are easy to replace.

rustedhooks said:

Yes I know the machine is old, but my understanding is Kitamura is a solid machine when properly cared for. Im asking for anything might pertain specifically to this model of machine and controller.

Click to expand...

Mr Rustedhooks- I believe the answers you are getting are VERY specific to the machine yo are looking at.

The machine is a quality piece of iron although the spindle is a bastard size...the real issue is the Control.

First bastard spindle...holders are pricey and hard to find then worthless to sell at the end of your life with machine.

Control- Old machine controls, when you call factory or service they give you a sunset them answer all too often. Meaning your on your own.

When on your own you can ask places like here...the popular controls you'll find someone with knowledge on how to troubleshoot, fix find parts and support. Less popular ones..your on your own.

Hire a service tech..if familiar with your machine great, if not your paying 120/hr for them to learn your machine so they can fix. Then can they get parts...something close to make work...


Point being made, perfect condition old machine can run like the dickens...but a board or something goes it can cost you what you paid for the machine and more to get her back up and running. Take it from someone who has gone that route. Luckily I got a good 10-15years before I finally said enough is enough.
Its one thing to get a bill for 5k to fix a machine worth 10k...its another to be down 6 weeks for a part to be shipped in on top of the bill. Can you say "lost customer". Or in my case I made some parts on manual machine, a few I outsourced at a loss...but kept customer happy...sort of , they liked my work better.

If you buying to dabble and play...thats one thing. But if buying to produce work in a business...there is something to be said about buying mainstream machines.

I have a 2001 version and second everything Vancbiker said. Good machine but it DOES NOT like to sit. First thing is the air/oiler for the spindle needs to be bled, it most likely won't work very well until then. Check the head knod as that is an issue and a bit of work to fix if it is small, lots of work if a problem, there are no gibs for head knod. My machine uses around 8 cfm of air so you will need a decent compressor. If in good shape it will be a fast for it's time, stiff mill. Sitting for a long time makes the memory batteries suspect, real suspect. Parts have never been a problem when I have asked, all I have needed so far is way oil filter and way cover seals, which Kitamura didn't have. Kitamura does free phone tech support for anything they have sold, no mater who owns it, saved my ass a few times. They also don't have a "registration" fee to get anything.

I have an older kitamura H300 HMC. It's a real nice machine, but it is 35 years old. It has a Fanuc control that I'm intimately familiar with and it came with 100 or so BT35 holders.

I bought mine with a control problem. The control wouldn't come up ready after sitting for a few months. So pretty much the same scenario you are looking at.

I paid a whopping $0 for mine. The shop was asking $5k for it. I offered $0 and they accepted.

Took me about 6 hours of troubleshooting to find the bad ready relay in the spindle chiller that was the problem.

I am new to the forum and this is my first post, but I figured I would share my recent experience. Back in Feb I decided to buy a 1990 Kiwa excel 510 with a fanuc om control. I did get to check out the machine under power running a program in air checked it out real good oiling system was working well. I paid 6k for the machine and $1200 to get it moved. Once I got it powered up and running I found out that the head was out of tram .006 in 8 inches, not good. I ended up having to pull the head off the machine re machine the bearing surface square. Luckily I have a friend with a machine big enough. Just some food for though that with older machines it is probably more likely than not that some kind of issues may arise. Keep that in mind when paying for a used machine.

Thank you all very much for the advise. I am going to go look at it next week, make him a low ball offer. He might take it. If it is full of problems, I will part it out a piece at a time....

If its affordable and runs then why not, then run it like you stole it making as much cash as you can to afford a new(er) machine. After that you can fix and fiddle with it if it's interesting enough, or sell it for some diy for retrofit.

If it don't run and you plan on making money with it buy something that works and back to my first comment.

Marko