Foam tool cutouts for tool storage - Any experience here with that ?

Milacron · May 29, 2016

For example -http://www.foamfittools.com/toolfoaminstructions.php

Anyone here with DIY experience on these ? I suppose I mostly wonder how sharp the resulting routed edges are, would HSS cutter be better than carbide and how much mess is there from dust standpoint during the process ?

The Gedore (German) tool sets that fit in foam that is the perfect size for their cart drawers I was told were cut via laser but I don't see how a laser could cut much beyond the shape of the tool (the two colors of foam are not layered afterwards....the cut is into the blue or red layer as well ) In reality they might be done via CNC router... but I don't know really.

Examples ... http://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...edore-heard-them-pix-319131/?highlight=gedore

169065d1460699162-nice-german-tool-cabinet-tools-gedore-heard-them-pix-fullsizerender-15.jpg

Monarchist · May 29, 2016

Milacron said:
For example -http://www.foamfittools.com/toolfoaminstructions.php

I suppose I mostly wonder how sharp the resulting routed edges are, would HSS cutter be better than carbide and how much mess is there from dust standpoint during the process ?

The Gedore (German) tool sets that fit in foam that is the perfect size for their cart drawers I was told were cut via laser but I don't see how a laser could cut much beyond the shape of the tool. In reality they might be done via CNC router... but I don't know really.

Best fitted ones with any depth to them are molded, not cut. Not to the actual tool. To a buck made with finger-grab ears & such. Probably not that hard to DIY with the packaging foams sold today. Durability and looks above my concern, but a 'velvet' fabric not ruled out for the public-facing surface.

A simple matrix of posts with elastomer tube over - 'Viton' or the like - gets 'er done more easily and a whole lot more flexibly. Fine woods can work, too. And recycled corks. Seriously. This DIY stuff dasn't have to be UGLY. It can just as well be right 'elegant' as well as functional.

Bill

Milacron · May 29, 2016

Monarchist said:
Best fitted ones with any depth to them are molded, not cut. Not to the actual tool. To a buck made with finger-grab ears & such. Probably not that hard to DIY with the packaging foams sold today. Durability and looks above my concern, but a 'velvet' fabric not ruled out for the public-facing surface.

Now that I've experienced it, much prefer the cut foam myself. Only possible caviat is that foam of this nature in the past has been know to somehow chemically break down and disintegrate after a few decades...even in a sealed box....and oh what a mess it is when it does. OTOH, perhaps by 2016 they have improved the formula so this will not happen...dunno...check back in 20 years...

Monarchist · May 29, 2016

Milacron said:
Now that I've experienced it, much prefer the cut foam myself. Only possible caviat is that foam of this nature in the past has been know to somehow chemically break down and disintegrate after a few decades...even in a sealed box....and oh what a mess it is when it does. OTOH, perhaps by 2016 they have improved the formula so this will not happen...dunno...check back in 20 years...

Breakdown didn't happen even fifty years ago IF... one used a different foam.

Close-cell Neoprene lasts. See also 'Armaflex'. So too several of the 'silicone rubber' molding compounds. Poly ESTER is reasonable tough. Pervase use-wherever Urethanes, not

Urethanes are simply s**t on extended Holiday. They are ALREADY deteriorating, Day One onward, foam or solid.

Bill

specfab · May 29, 2016

Hmm. That's something I might not have thought of, were I considering how to make that type of foam-fit tool storage. If the router is the tool of choice, I would select a HSS cutter most likely, thinking that the edges may be a tad more keen. With either cutter type, though, it would be a new cutter, not used on anything else. If the cutter is very sharp, and the material isn't flopping around, edges should be well defined. The key would be keeping the material in place. I'd likely make a plate for the router base with a hole for the cutter just barely larger than the cutter.

If the foam is the standard sort of open-cell polyurethane, I suspect there will be some very fine dust. With other materials, like closed-cell EPDM, or open-cell polyethylene, the chunks should be larger, and less like powder. Either way, I'd want a vacuum to clear the stuff away right at the router.

Being the obsessive sort, I might be inclined to figure out a way to punch/razor-cut on a project like this, or as noted, maybe a laser-cutting outfit could do a bang-up job with a proper DXF. I'm not certain what the depth limitations might be in a material like foamed plastic, but for stuff that is sub-half-inch thick, I can't see why laser process wouldn't work, unless there are thermal/melting issues involved.

It's beyond me why anyone would want to do this with a non-guided, hand-held router though. I don't think I'd be happy with the result I would get (I'm picturing 3rd grade science project).

duckfarmer27 · May 29, 2016

Don -

I know the commercially done ones are machined somehow (I know, lot of help that is). My comment is that in my working life had to worry about shadowing for tool accountability / control in an aircraft environment. Technicians did it themselves with razor knife and layers of different thicknesses. Not perfect, but you would be amazed at how good a job one can do that way. A little practice and some patience.

If I ever get my hundred year backlog of projects done then maybe it will be time for me to shadow out my two roll around toolboxes......

Dale

snowman · May 29, 2016

Milacron said:
Now that I've experienced it, much prefer the cut foam myself. Only possible caviat is that foam of this nature in the past has been know to somehow chemically break down and disintegrate after a few decades...even in a sealed box....and oh what a mess it is when it does. OTOH, perhaps by 2016 they have improved the formula so this will not happen...dunno...check back in 20 years...

Ugh...my biggest fears. That and offgassing that causes tools to rust.

Router bits for cutting foam:

Foam Cutting Router Bits - CNC Router Bits - Products

So, there's a couple other options. One is Kaizen foam...which to me is an expensive joke. It's a whole bunch of 1/8" layers of foam layered together. Then you cut out what you want with a utility knife. Nicely allowing you to cut different depths for different tools and such. All awesome until you get to the price part. To do a vidmar cabinet, I could damn near buy another vidmar cabinet on the used market. But, organization costs money.

The other option which I found interesting as well, and since I imagine you'll be drawing up the layout in CAD anyway. Waterjet I have not used this company, but have been planning to for quite some time.

http://www.foamforyou.com/CustomCutFoam.htm

Guess it depends on how much you want to spend.

Monarchist · May 29, 2016

duckfarmer27 said:
Don -

I know the commercially done ones are machined somehow (I know, lot of help that is). My comment is that in my working life had to worry about shadowing for tool accountability / control in an aircraft environment. Technicians did it themselves with razor knife and layers of different thicknesses. Not perfect, but you would be amazed at how good a job one can do that way. A little practice and some patience.

If I ever get my hundred year backlog of projects done then maybe it will be time for me to shadow out my two roll around toolboxes......

Dale

Tool accountability - Aircraft, nukes, medical surgery, perhaps? Is seriously important if it is important AT ALL. But only WHERE it is important.

Foam cutouts otherwise can be as much waste of space, 'snatch' convenience and storage flexibility as they are any real-world gain.

Note how very many among us bin the ones some of our goods arrive with far more often than retain. Let alone add new.

Bill

snowman · May 29, 2016

Milacron said:
Now that I've experienced it, much prefer the cut foam myself. Only possible caviat is that foam of this nature in the past has been know to somehow chemically break down and disintegrate after a few decades...even in a sealed box....and oh what a mess it is when it does. OTOH, perhaps by 2016 they have improved the formula so this will not happen...dunno...check back in 20 years...

I would add, it *shouldn't* happen with polyethylene foam. Unless you are exposing it to solvents and the like.

Milacron · May 29, 2016

duckfarmer27 said:
Don -

I know the commercially done ones are machined somehow (I know, lot of help that is). My comment is that in my working life had to worry about shadowing for tool accountability / control in an aircraft environment. Technicians did it themselves with razor knife and layers of different thicknesses. Not perfect, but you would be amazed at how good a job one can do that way. A little practice and some patience.

If I ever get my hundred year backlog of projects done then maybe it will be time for me to shadow out my two roll around toolboxes......

Dale

I have no interest in tool shadowing myself but stumbled onto below while looking for blank tool foam sources...

http://www.5ssupply.com/shop/pc/Too...cDz5HWNMQFwxJhWZER_nwV10LZlccQ8ZMvRoC8Yfw_wcB

Cwalster · May 29, 2016

Do not attempt to laser cut foams. Polypropylene and polystyrene will ignite. Not sure about urethane, but I wouldn't be inclined to try.

Sharp HSS is the way to go. Conventionally cutting provides a better finish than climb, and you want to be going pretty heavy on your feeds to slice through the beads as opposed to turning everything to dust. RPM doesn't matter much, but there is definitely a minimum feed rate before things start to melt. Dust is easily controlled with a shop vac. A hot knife or razor blade works well if your going the manual route. Sand paper will clean up what remains.

I'd look at getting EPP for your trays. We've made a lot of trays like this, including for our CAT40 tool holders. They get handled pretty roughly, but have still held up very nicely.

traditional-tools · May 29, 2016

duckfarmer27 said:
Technicians did it themselves with razor knife and layers of different thicknesses. Not perfect, but you would be amazed at how good a job one can do that way. A little practice and some patience.

That's how I do it, I use an Olfa knife, the best razor knives available.

Monarchist · May 29, 2016

Milacron said:
I have no interest in tool shadowing myself but stumbled onto below while looking for blank tool foam sources...

http://www.5ssupply.com/shop/pc/Too...cDz5HWNMQFwxJhWZER_nwV10LZlccQ8ZMvRoC8Yfw_wcB

Having worked HARD to not have a Harry Homeowner flavour about my space? Even if it wants M1 Chain Demolition blocks to clean up on a bad day?

No Fine Way, thanks.

Goal is that NOTHNG is to be hung out in the grit, dirt, paint overspray, nor even eyeball-distraction.

Vanilla wheeled drawer units we ALL use aside, open a narrow door on a TALL caster-wheeled 'bookcase' size mobile. Tools may be hanging on the reverse of that door, the goods such wrenches are FOR on a small shelf aligned with them.

I never figured I was 'learning' anything I shuuda missed the second time I had to clean chips out of a rack of drills, collets, or endmills - let alone the hundred and second go.

Next 'toy' is to put to use the .. what? 24 lineal feet of 20-inch wide aluminium tambour goods I just snatched up cheaply. Probably not over 3' to 4' each application. One 'links' whatever length one needs, guide rails store-bought and cut as needed.

Bill

Milacron · May 29, 2016

snowman said:
I would add, it *shouldn't* happen with polyethylene foam. Unless you are exposing it to solvents and the like.

My worst experience with this was in the hard plastic molded case for a laser alignment instrument (think surveyer scope size) that was about 30 years old, and to be honest, have no idea what exactly they used for the foam.

I do recall is was noticably softer and more compressable than what Gedore uses...thus the Gedore or FoamFit formulas may last much longer in reality.

Just thought I would mention that to see what others thought. I just remember being shocked that the laser foam (probably 25 years old when I obtained the instrument) went from perfect to sticky mush in 5 subsequent years sitting very much sealed in a serious case. Maybe it would have fared better if the case was not sealed so well ? Seems like I had similar happen to a few other instruments but can't remember the details on the others.

Milacron · May 29, 2016

Monarchist said:
Having worked HARD to not have a Harry Homeowner flavour about my space?

LOL... reminds me more of my dad's cabinet shop...which had a shadow pegboard for tools back in the 1960's. Looking back on it now I wonder whose idea that was as he didn't run the shop but just owned it as part of his saw and lumber mill....someone else ran the cabinet and millwork end of things.

Monarchist · May 29, 2016

Milacron said:
My worst experience with this was in the hard plastic molded case for a laser alignment instrument (think surveyer scope size) that was about 30 years old, and to be honest, have no idea what exactly they used for the foam.

I do recall is was noticably softer and more compressable than what Gedore uses...thus the Gedore or FoamFit formulas may last much longer in reality.

Just thought I would mention that to see what others thought. I just remember being shocked that the laser foam (probably 25 years old when I obtained the instrument) went from perfect to sticky mush in 5 subsequent years sitting very much sealed in a serious case. Maybe it would have fared better if the case was not sealed so well ? Seems like I had similar happen to a few other instruments but can't remember the details on the others.

MY experience was with magical-modern (and long-run economical NOT!) urethane foam BED mattresses that went all lumpy and bumpy when 'obsolete' natural rubber-derived latex did not.

Hong Kong's climate, foam bedding made of polyethylene or polyester lasts a lot longer. Both probably cause Cancer in Californicyah. Thankfully, we have a fair span of the Pacific to protect us.

Even so - I wouldn't want any-of-the-above lying next to fine steel tools that get oils and such on them as a matter of course, let-alone as routine pre-put-away preservation. If the foam itself is inert, wotever gets into its pores may be less-so.

Even with woods, one wants to avoid high tannins, etc. Mahogany vs Walnut or Oak. Teak if you can find it. Lignum Vitae would be OCD, though I once made fuel-filler 'keys' of that and brass for the Boss's Hatteras.

Bamboo, a grass, not a tree-wood, is free of that, but is mildly abrasive. Silicates grown into it from the get-go. High-volume item as cutting boards and cutlery trays, now also some very durable flooring. I save the hard work and just modify. Ditto some of the plastic cutting boards.

Sheet goods would be cheaper? Maybe not by the time one diverts to do ordering, pays shipping, provides for storing, does cutting, and manages waste of it all.

Bill

adama · May 29, 2016

Google Gerber foam for stuff like this is cnc cut, but not with a rotary bit but more a vibrating up - down knife blade. Very very common in the upholstery trade.

John Welden · May 29, 2016

We have cut tool box foam with laser, water jet and CNC drag knife.

Laser is decent depending on the foam. The settings need to be just right. Foam gets sort of melted and will offgas for quite a while after its cut.

Water jet is easy, but might trap grit in foam.

Drag knife is great, especially for light foam. (Might be using wrong term. It's more of a reciprocating saw)

I haven't tried routing, but it should work pretty well as long as the foam denisity isn't too light.

The biggest pain in the ass is generating the CAD. If you don't care about your foam looking perfect, hand cutting is the fastest and easiest.

Monarchist · May 29, 2016

adama said:
Google Gerber foam for stuff like this is cnc cut, but not with a rotary bit but more a vibrating up - down knife blade. Very very common in the upholstery trade.

B'lieve I've seen that. Practically 'ultrasonic'. Move-easily foam is already cut before it realizes it can get a grip and be dragged.

Might just try that next need with an ignorant 'ultrasonic' hand-held saw I already have a couple of.

Thanks!

Bill

Monarchist · May 29, 2016

Monarchist said:
Might just try that next need with an ignorant 'ultrasonic' hand-held saw I already have a couple of.

Just tried that. Noisey. Works a treat with an ordinary wood/metal fine-tooth 'hacksaw' blade. Stiffer the foam, the better. Toothless razor edge not tried.

Dasn't do curves, though. Could do straight-line segment stylized cutouts if 'onesies' justified it.
Seems easier to avoid mistakes - and bloodshed - than with a razor knife, but that could just be my personal ignorance.

Bill

Foam tool cutouts for tool storage - Any experience here with that ?

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