Need help wiring a lathe motor in Europe

Hi Everybody, I am getting ready to teach one of my lathe classes in Copenhagen starting in the morning. (Monday morning at 2 am EST)I have a student that just brought in a new Taig lathe and when it is turned on the motor just buzzes.... it is a 1/4 HP 220 volt capacitor start motor bought in England....... it will run if you give the shaft a spin...... I think the capacitor is wired in wrong therefor not doing it's job......... the capacitor is wired across the two lines coming in.... there is no ground on the incoming lead. The wires are brown and blue.... I do not know which one is hot. All this little 220 stuff over here seems like toy wiring to me.....

Any advice would be much appreciated..... I'll check back in a few hours. THANKS Bill

There should be a third wire. The capacitor goes from one line wire to the third. The motor is effectively a two phase one for starting and probably has a centrifugal switch to disconnect the capacitor after it gets started. My first guess is that the line is connected to the wrong motor wires, although in that case a centrifugal switch would shut the motor off when it got up some speed. Another guess, which is unlikely, is that it is a capacitor run motor like those used in air conditioners. In that case, the capacitor should be an oil filled one rather than an electrolytic because it is always in the circuit. Since you haven't blown it yet, I suspect that it is a run capacitor rather than a starting one. Can you hear a starting switch operate? I can't help with the wire color codes. The few times I have run into the European ones, I have just figured out which was which by meter readings and logic.

Sorry I can't be more help, but as always, if I had it in front of me I could do a lot better.

Bill

Bill

Brown is hot (live), blue neutral. Capacitor goes in series with the (switched?) start winding. Start winding may be identifiable by higher impedance.

Old British, Brook et al, style winding markings are A1, A2 for main winding and Z1, Z2 for starter. External capacitor between A1 and Z1 with centrifugal switch after the capacitor. A1, Z1 are hot, A2, Z2 are neutral.

Later UK and many continental motors use the U, V, W system with 6 connections. Capacitor goes U2 - V2. Direction of rotation set by links.

Usually clockwise is hot (live) to U1, neutral to V1 with U1 linked to W2 V1 to U2. Anti clockwise puts hot (live) on W2 which is linked to U2 and V1 is linked to UI.

See http://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...Wiring & Maintenance Instructions 1 phase.pdf for a download of the modern connections.

Hope this helps.

Clive

Thank You so much.... looks like it is wired wrong from what you both wrote..... but being some what afraid to burn up someones new lathe I am not sure which is Z 1-2, A 1-2 etc...... so let's try this

coming out of the motor are red, yellow and blue wire... the blue is attached to a what looks like thermal limiter and then changes to a brown wire.

the capacitor has a brown and blue wire

the switched line ( cord mounted switch, %#&?*... I hate those but folks here all like them!) coming in is blue and brown

So what do we think goes where?????

Thaks again for all the help!

Have you got access to a digital multimeter or even a bulb'n battery circuit tester?

You are looking for two windings with one end common and the others tailed out. Sounds like the blue wire, with the power input is the common end so red and yellow will be the tails. Higher impedance winding will be the start winding. Capacitor goes between the two tails and the other side of the power goes to the tail of the low impedance winding. If you get the power on the wrong tail the motor won't start.

With a digi meter I'd expect highest impedance red to yellow i.e. both windings in series. Next highest yellow to blue i.e. start winding. Lowest red to blue i.e. run winding.

Hafta say the existing set-up sounds a bodge. Blue to brown is wrong under all Euro wiring codes. I'd expect hot (live) to go to red and neutral to blue. The inline cord switch should be dumped and something better fitted. These switches are only rated for resistive loads and the action is slow, often so much so that its possible to sustain an arc on an inductive load so things don't switch off. I know, I've dunnit as a demo. OK it was a crappy switch but I needed to make a point. Worst some of the rocker ones only open one line. Aaargh.

Clive

Thanks Clive I know the switch is crap.... even worse it is a lamp swich that is only single poll......... but that is what they have... as do a bunch of others here. Don't even ask me why?

I now see little letters marking these parts, I did manage to get the terminal block out and it was marked underneath.

W 2 U 2 brown lead from capacitor, yellow lead to moter

U 1 blue lead from capacitor, red lead from motor

V 1 W 1 Blue lead from motor w/ thermal

Where should the power in go? which two of these

BTW I have nothing here for testing and almost no tools......

Thanks again

Thank you again for your help..... I got it working.... and it works great..... I put the blue to U1 and the brown to V1....... you know as many times as I have been to Europe I still can't get used to their wiring....... and I know they think the same about us in the USA.

Again thank all of you who thought about this or helped, this is the place you sure can find answers so a thanks to Don too......

Another vote for hatred of in line switches. When something goes wrong, which it always will if you do this sort of thing long enough, I want a big red E-STOP, not have to find an expletive deleted switch that may be anywhere.

Bill

Glad you got it going. Big worry is that the connections are symmetrical and it would probably run with power over V1 to U2 as well. But wrong way runs it on the start winding.

The layout has a vague familiarity. Is it by chance a Clarke motor, probably from Machine Mart. If so I may be able to get hold of the official data.

clive

Clive603 said:

See http://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...Wiring & Maintenance Instructions 1 phase.pdf for a download of the modern connections.

Hope this helps.

Clive

Click to expand...

Linky no workie....

try this one

http://www.kenworthproducts.co.uk/acatalog/Wiring & Maintenance Instructions 1 phase.pdf