Should I start my own shop or get engineering degree? or do both?

Diezel · Mar 12, 2017

Just as the title says... I want to start my own shop, however I also want to go to school to get my BSME. I have a great 40 hr a week job that I do not intend to leave, but it will not fulfill my desire to machine either.

I have work that I can run Lights Out, however part time it will still take approx 20 hrs a week to keep afloat. I don't think that I can take on the work and do the degree program with a full time job though.

Or I can go to school and get my degree for free between my works education program and FAFSA.

The other option is to turn down the work and buy myself a tormach pcnc1100, which I can use for hobby stuff and some proto work while going to school.

Also, I have the money to do this, have the skills, and know all that it entails... I guess what I am asking is... is it more worth it to pursue a degree now for value add of the business down the road or just dive into business ownership and forget the "piece of paper"?

Guest · Mar 12, 2017

How do you handle working long hours on little sleep? What are your family obligations? The answers to those questions will dictate a lot toward what is your best path.

Diezel · Mar 12, 2017

Dualkit said:
How do you handle working long hours on little sleep? What are your family obligations? The answers to those questions will dictate a lot toward what is your best path.

I've been working 60+ hours since I started in this trade 5 years ago.. I'm used to that.. and yes I have kids

alskdjfhg · Mar 12, 2017

Where in Texas are you?

I'm finishing up my sophomore year at UH right now, I'm in the honors mechanical engineering program. And also theoretically in the process of eventually starting a shop and farming.

I'm not really in any classes I consider "engineering classes", still the basic stuff. Dynamics, differential equations, a political science, technical communication class, chem lab and an engineering graphics class this semester.

Only class that I would say has been really hard for me is differential equations, but that's mainly because I have a total loser as a professor. The worst part about this stuff (at least at UH) is that in order to get out in 4 years, you have to take 17-18 hours a semester or take summer classes.

The workload is cyclical, goes from super boring to balls to the wall craziness for two weeks. If your good with math, can focus on the classes and be consistent with studying, it's doable. Try to get into an honors program if you can, I've found it's much better than the normal meat grinder of regular engineering classes.

Had one regular engineering programming class where the sadistic bitch of a professor was proud of her like 80% drop rate..... VS pretty close to one-on-one with a better professor in the honors classes.

Oldwrench · Mar 12, 2017

Is your goal to earn a good salary in an engineering position? Because that skillset will be irrelevant if YOU are the one signing the checks. In that case, better to take some accounting and Bus Ad courses and plan to hire any engineering help you need.

ME after your name will get you a paycheck right away. CEO after your name will, after a somewhat more protracted learning curve, get you a bigger one--enough to pay for whatever degree you want to pursue, if by that time you still feel the need. But the entreprenurial road is definitely the hard way.

swatkins · Mar 12, 2017

It's hard to pass up a free education...

makezee · Mar 12, 2017

Only spend your time and money on higher education if you have a serious goal in mind, and the degree is essential or a considerably advantageous step toward reaching that goal.

Plenty of people funneling money into the modern higher education system and getting less than nothing out of it because they have no idea why they are there in the first place.

-Adam

converterking · Mar 12, 2017

alskdjfhg said:
Only class that I would say has been really hard for me is differential equations, but that's mainly because I have a total loser as a professor.

Had one regular engineering programming class where the sadistic bitch of a professor was proud of her like 80% drop rate..... VS pretty close to one-on-one with a better professor in the honors classes.

Do they read Practical Machinist?

alskdjfhg · Mar 12, 2017

converterking said:
Do they read Practical Machinist?

Considering the ridiculousness of the crap that is apparently being taught in the Intro to Machine Design class (the machine shop class), I doubt it.

Although I have been telling those who will listen that if they want to learn more they should come here and read.

I'm not in that class this semester, they are making me take the engineering graphics as a pre-req. Even though I'm AutoCAD certified, I've got to have the pre-req. I don't mind it though, just an A.

It's my favorite class actually, so wonderfully easy.

kla64 · Mar 12, 2017

About 22yrs ago after I had completed my apprenticeship, I was working 50+ hr wks in a machine shop, going to night school with the intent to get a BSME, and trying to start a family.

Then the opportunity came about to buy the machine shop that I worked for, and I took it.

The BSME path was stopped dead in its track. As a hands-on small business owner, there was little time for anything else.

I have no "piece of paper" in a frame in my office. At times I regret the decision not to continue on the degree path, I guess to consider myself somewhat of an equal to the engineer/customers that I interact with.

I do not however regret the decision to be a business owner. It has allowed me to provide very well for my family. Probably better than an engineering salary would have.

Will the knowledge gained in school benefit you in your shop? Probably... math, physics, science... l use pieces of it everyday.

What is best for you? Your age, skill set, education, financial security, etc, would all play a part in the recommendation.

In the end nobody but you will know which you want more.

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk

TDegenhart · Mar 12, 2017

My crystal ball is foggy. What you need to do is determine your long range plans first. You didn't say what you are currently doing, lab work, drafting, sales or what. I would not expect you to be doing engineering work without a degree. Is the work something that can complement machining?

If you plan on leaving the employed world permanently, then a degree is of limited usefulness. Anymore, a degree is just a means of getting in the door. You say you have great 40 hr job which implies that both you and the employer as satisfied with your performance. Have you discussed with your employer the advantages of a degree?

How long would you want and be able to handle two jobs. Eventually, they will start interfering with one another. At that point which way will you go? If you decide to stay on mama's tit then a degree is of value. Going the other way not so much, especially since a degree often involves courses such as political science, history and other required courses.

You didn't say how long it would take to get the degree. When I got mine, the degree required 144 hours of credit, that's about 17 hours a semester for 4 years with summers off. Second you haven't said anything about your personal life. Married? About to be married? Kids? Without the encumbrances of marriage, you should plan on about 1/2 time or less, meaning it will take 7-10 years from start to finish. All this time your wanting to make chips is being pushed back farther and farther.

Have you considered getting a technical education from a community college?

Tom

ewlsey · Mar 12, 2017

I did an engineering degree when I was 18-22 with no wife, no kids, no mortgage, and a crappy part time job as a mechanic. It still took about everything I had to get it done in 4 years. Though, I'm not the sharpest crayon...

I started my own shop around age 26. Went full time at 28. If college seemed hard, it was nothing compared to self employment.

My wife is in a masters program now (math). She takes a night class once a week. We are 32 and have a baby and a mortgage and she works full time. Just that one class a week is a tough row to hoe.

So I don't know what to tell you. If you intend to be self employed, I guess I don't see the point of a degree. The degree gets you a job. If you are self employed, you don't need a job. There's no boss to impress and no promotions to get. If you need the degree to woo customers or you need technical skills that come with the degree to run the business or be successful, that's a pretty good reason to get some schoolin'

I don't regret going to college one bit. Though, I really don't use 90% or what I was taught. But, the 10% I do use is very, very handy. I'd say a few times a year I need to size a load carrying beam or analyze a tolerance stack up or calculate a mass flow rate or design a simple RC circuit.

Diezel · Mar 12, 2017

Ok so, I am married... with 4 kids... so time is definitely spread thin but I make it Work. I do have a technical degree in manufacturing technology, but most of it won't apply towards an ME, they'd count as elective classes. I am in an engineering role, I do everything from design to assembly. My current job is worth about 110k per year to me (including bennies at 40 hrs a week), so the shop would have to blow up pretty good before I cut off the full time job.

Ultimately I guess the whole reason behind either of these paths for me is because I have this problem where my success is never good enough for me.

The replies so far shed some great light, and I know I'm going to have to decide a path. I think a prototype/hobby shop for myself is probably best for me and my family but I know it will not support my ambitions or fulfill my dreams...

If I do get the degree and stay with my current company until retirement I will never even want for anything but I won't touch machines again.... which I am passionate about. There's nothing more satisfying to me than putting a raw chunk of material in a machine and pulling out a functioning part.

SBAER · Mar 12, 2017

I don't know what an engineering degree means in the US but in Canada it is 90% math, very removed from anything machine shop related. Do you really want to go to the trouble of learning the algorithms behind the FEA programs you use or the math that powers your CAM program, does deriving beam equations sound like fun.

I couldn't wait to get that over with so that I could make something that I could hold in my hand.

Pattnmaker · Mar 12, 2017

I love being self employed but it is tough making a decent living as a one man shop so now I have employees. I need to keep the work flowing in, I am doing most of the programming so I don't get to make things that much. If it is just wanting some hands on work self employment is not necessarily going to help that much long term. Sounds like the job pays well maybe a hobby shop might be the way to go. I do enjoy making things but lots of times it is just work. With a hobby shop you get to make what you want when you want.

If however the office politics pisses you off. All the bad decisions those you are working for are making drive you nuts. And you can live with going weeks where you barely see your family. Maybe you should start your own shop.

HuFlungDung · Mar 12, 2017

Diezel said:
If I do get the degree and stay with my current company until retirement I will never even want for anything but I won't touch machines again.... which I am passionate about. There's nothing more satisfying to me than putting a raw chunk of material in a machine and pulling out a functioning part.

Well, there is the small matter of that part being profitable to make: the fun goes out the window if you have to wrap the part in money to ship it out

The infatuation with making stuff is just that: infatuation, and it will wear off sooner or later. Then it becomes just another grind: not saying its better or worse than any other job, I'm sure most jobs have some satisfaction payoff at certain times.

I started out wanting to be a 'fixer'. I didn't have to design a line of widgets for sale, I just had to have enough work coming in, and to develop the skills, and acquire the equipment to handle most (not all) of what people needed in the way of machining services. The real satisfaction comes from giving customers the timely service they want, at a decent price that permits making a net profit that is comparable to a good job elsewhere.

In my situation, in working with various customers, I have 'lines of widgets' that are not my own, but which come as annual contracts that help fill in any spare time that I have. That took years and years to get to that point. I still don't make a single thing 'just for fun', I just don't have the motivation for it. The customers' motivation is my motivation.

edit: my 'fun' is making my own production easier to do, or my shop set up to better handle this or that. That may involve extensive machining/welding/fabrication on my own dime.

TDegenhart · Mar 12, 2017

Diezel said:
Ok so, I am married... with 4 kids... so time is definitely spread thin but I make it Work. I do have a technical degree in manufacturing technology, but most of it won't apply towards an ME, they'd count as elective classes. I am in an engineering role, I do everything from design to assembly. My current job is worth about 110k per year to me (including bennies at 40 hrs a week), so the shop would have to blow up pretty good before I cut off the full time job.

Ultimately I guess the whole reason behind either of these paths for me is because I have this problem where my success is never good enough for me.

The replies so far shed some great light, and I know I'm going to have to decide a path. I think a prototype/hobby shop for myself is probably best for me and my family but I know it will not support my ambitions or fulfill my dreams...

If I do get the degree and stay with my current company until retirement I will never even want for anything but I won't touch machines again.... which I am passionate about. There's nothing more satisfying to me than putting a raw chunk of material in a machine and pulling out a functioning part.

Couple of comments. It's almost unheard of today to spend all your professional life with one company. Reasons vary.

What do you consider being successful? How much of it is about you? The stock market crashes, you loose your job and savings but not your family. The only work you can find after 8 months is $40,000 year no beenies. Can you handle that? You start a shop, quit your job and are doing well, then your biggest customer cancels all his PO's. Now you are stuck with machine payments and not enough income. You go bankrupt.

I am not trying to paint a black picture, but these things have happened to people on this forum. This is part of life, you have to plan for these to happen. Right now you seem very optimistic.

To me there are at least two stages of life. The first is to protect your family. They should more important than anything else in your life. That means giving up something that you personally may want to do for the security of the family. My father did not want to paint houses but that is what he did to support our family. This stage will continue until the kids are out of college and on their own. Then you can relax and plan for what you AND THE WIFE want to do. Our daughter and her husband are both surgeons making lots of money a year. Their kids college educations are fully funded. They both have retired at age 55, now they are doing what they want to do. Can you start a business when you are 50 or 55?

Just some thoughts....

Tom

Chip Chester · Mar 12, 2017

Degree. Even better if it's free. A buddy did it much later in life, and it gets much harder down the line.

Your employer's opinion may be biased, as he'll answer what's best for him right now, which is a productive full-time employee.

If you can run 'lights out' production, too, and make good money, it may help make ends meet. Or, if you run across a talented schoolmate, you can bring them in to help as needed, and make it your mutual study hall, too.

In a few years, having both the degree and the skill set will allow you to make choices that are the best for you -- whether that's shop ownership, engineering employment with side work, or further study towards your PE. With college seemingly falling out of favor, your degree will set you further apart from the crowd as life goes on. And being able to do it 'free', or near enough, without the burden of student loans is icing on the cake.

We busted our butt to get my son thru college without loans, and that has given him a huge head-start. He has buddies who owe well over a hundred grand, and they're 22. Probably 10% of them will get a good enough job to pay that off over ten years.

Chip

PeteM · Mar 12, 2017

A couple options not listed above:

1) Keep the $110K a year job and do some hobby machining on the side. Maybe make it fun for your kids as well. It often turns out that just being able to design and make stuff turns out to be useful at some point for most any business.

2) Keep the $110K a year job and take a couple engineering math courses (or whatever you're least sure about) at night or on line. See if what you learn can help in your present job / future business. See if you're good at it.

3) Do a bit of both -- then decide after you have another year or so of "data." No harm in asking here, but hard for us to know what you're passionate about, and what you can be really exceptional at that's of value to others.

Don't know the age of your kids and your wife's situation. But having kids old enough to be in school and a wife able to contribute helps a lot of families find a tiny bit of slack in their otherwise tight time and $ budgets.

Diezel · Mar 12, 2017

TDegenhart said:
Couple of comments. It's almost unheard of today to spend all your professional life with one company. Reasons vary.

What do you consider being successful? How much of it is about you?

Honestly the only way I'd lose my job is if I did something to jeopardize it.

I think the question of what I define as success is the root of it all. Every time I define success for myself I smash it, redefine it, and smash it again. To me I am the definition of success but at 28 years old I know this cannot be my ceiling... but maybe I should just sit down shut up and be happy with it..

Life is always going to be that way, I may seem overly optimistic but the reality is that I know closed mouths don't get fed. If I don't try it I'll never know, and if all the P.O.s get pulled its just part of the trials and tribulations. Prepare and handle with a level head is all I can do and that goes for everything in life.

It would seem pretty dumb to pass up the free education... but I'm not sure how to calculate whether it's worth it or not.

Pete: she's my age with a degree in business admin. She'd most likely be doing all the paperwork as she doesn't work.

Those are pretty much my 3 options tho... keep job and start side shop with L/O production.. keep job and go to school... or keep job go to school and have hobby shop for any spare time.

Should I start my own shop or get engineering degree? or do both?

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