yet another STUPID video from practical machinist youtube page

[Houdini]

Yeah, I mean usually masochists get to hang out with leather bras and thigh-high boots and stuff but this thing, all the pain and none of the fun. Hard to imagine why ....

Gotta be really bored, I used to do some stuff like that, with a simple 2d visual renderer.
and when I was young did a lot with using fractal code for generating foliage tree structures, yeah I've forgotten all about that, good riddance!

 

[Mtndew]

Considering that the 2D dynamic paths weren't introduced until about 13 years ago, what was the alternative? 3D rough / 3D finish? I don't see anything else in there.

Honestly it's been so long I don't even remember.
Probably multiple passes, slotting, etc... whatever it took to get the stock off.

 

[rjwalker1973]

Jay is passing along lean principles from mainly Toyota, but in context of his own business implementation, showing what his manufacturing business has done,
gives good ideas.

When you think lean manufacturing the two names that come up the most is Toyota and Ford. They are the standards that most follow, especially TPS.

 

[Donkey Hotey]

GAHH! An hour and eighteen minutes of Mark Terryberry spamming tools? He even cuts the cheese on camera!
(good content, cutting examples and makes a lot of points about selecting inserts for lathes)

 

[EmGo]

(good content .... )

I got to where he said twenty-five thousandths was a pretty good depth of cut, then left. You'd be better off with the South Bend lathe book than listening to these clowns.

Maybe they are trying to compete with PM for dumbest youboob video ?

 

[gregormarwick]

I got to where he said twenty-five thousandths was a pretty good depth of cut, then left. You'd be better off with the South Bend lathe book than listening to these clowns.

Maybe they are trying to compete with PM for dumbest youboob video ?

Yes, he's using a CNMG1204xx. 5-7mm (.2-.275") is a good DOC for this insert. Use a smaller insert if you're taking tiny cuts like that.

 

[Donkey Hotey]

I got to where he said twenty-five thousandths was a pretty good depth of cut, then left. You'd be better off with the South Bend lathe book than listening to these clowns.

Yes, he's using a CNMG1204xx. 5-7mm (.2-.275") is a good DOC for this insert. Use a smaller insert if you're taking tiny cuts like that.

Maybe if you guys watched the video instead of dying for something to bitch about, you'd have seen why he was taking those light cuts. That was exactly the point he was trying to demonstrate: they did multiple increasing depth at identical RPM, material and feed rate. He wanted to show what the cutter looked like when the chip breaker started working and how it went from long stringy chips, to perfect broken curls.

He then went on to show multiple types of chip breaker and edge margin within exactly the same insert size. What makes something a finishing insert? What makes something a good overall insert? What makes one suitable for interrupted cutting?

It was a pretty agnostic overview of a lot of good information. Yeah, lots of ground that many already know but, a nice summary and pros and cons comparison of everything. It's not often you get to see what kind of chip breaker you want within a manufacturer's product line.

 

[gregormarwick]

Maybe if you guys watched the video instead of dying for something to bitch about, you'd have seen why he was taking those light cuts. That was exactly the point he was trying to demonstrate: they did multiple increasing depth at identical RPM, material and feed rate. He wanted to show what the cutter looked like when the chip breaker started working and how it went from long stringy chips, to perfect broken curls.

He then went on to show multiple types of chip breaker and edge margin within exactly the same insert size. What makes something a finishing insert? What makes something a good overall insert? What makes one suitable for interrupted cutting?

It was a pretty agnostic overview of a lot of good information. Yeah, lots of ground that many already know but, a nice summary and pros and cons comparison of everything. It's not often you get to see what kind of chip breaker you want within a manufacturer's product line.

This is extremely fundamental stuff, we could be generous and applaud Haas for catering to their market.

I have zero patience for the podcasty style of these presentations, hence why I only skipped through it.

 

[EmGo]

Maybe if you guys watched the video instead of dying for something to bitch about,

I wasn't looking for something to bitch about, from the title thought there might be something interesting there so took a little look.

I suffered through the crap about how nice was the weather in camarillo (home of one of the state loony bins back in the olde dayes, btw). I suffered through listening how they were just here to make me successful. I actually wondered, if they wanted to make me successful, why I wasn't getting tips on how to convince fan bing bing to go into the sugar mama business ... and then there was a video of an 8" chuck lathe with about a 2 1/2" bar of what they said was 4130 and it was taking off this little pissant cut that you could do in a 9" Atlas.

Great.

And then they started going off on how the greatest danger in a lathe was stringy chips. They didn't talk abuot roughing and finishing and the differences beteen them. They didn't talk about different materials and how you need to adjust doc and feedrate to break chips. They never even mentioned the concept of breaking a chip and what that involved (at least not while I could tolerate their shit) ... when that one beardo guy said "twenty-five thousands is a pretty good depth of cut" I had to leave before I pissed all over my monitor. Even in a haas that's ridiculous. And if it's because, as gregor said, they were using a tiny little insert, then USE A BIGGER FUCKING INSERT !

(btw, I habitually chop up to about half the insert's ic as depth of cut, so I dunno if mr marwick's comment is applicable. But I would never be using such a tiny-ass insert taking such a tiny-ass cut in anything bigger than a 1" screw machine. It's stupid.

Maybe the bumps and shit on newer inserts are helpful, but I wasn't going to put up with their shit long enough to find out. And after how stupid they were in the beginning, I'm probably not going to trust a word they say later on, either. Those two effing idjuts may have seen a lathe once but they never ran one. You'd go broke the first week following their advice.

 

[Donkey Hotey]

This is extremely fundamental stuff, we could be generous and applaud Haas for catering to their market.

I have zero patience for the podcasty style of these presentations, hence why I only skipped through it.

A skilled craftsman such as yourself is far too busy sipping brandy and contemplating novel and exciting ways to truncate the dodecahedron.

 

[Houdini]

A skilled craftsman such as yourself is far too busy sipping brandy and contemplating novel and exciting ways to truncate the dodecahedron.

WHAT!, We are CNC macheenist's, Haven't you heard,
we are but button pushing monkeys.
skilled craftsman hah!, contemplating dodeca somethen, hah!, looking where to fling my next load of shit!

 

[BajaFire]

And then they started going off on how the greatest danger in a lathe was stringy chips. They didn't talk abuot roughing and finishing and the differences beteen them. They didn't talk about different materials and how you need to adjust doc and feedrate to break chips. They never even mentioned the concept of breaking a chip and what that involved (at least not while I could tolerate their shit) ...

So their video is bad because you are impatient?

 

[EmGo]

So their video is bad because you are impatient?

The video is bad because it not only does not address the subject, it leads people to stupid incorrect conclusions. A quick read through the South Bend book would give 100% better results.

 

[Donkey Hotey]

The video is bad because it not only does not address the subject, it leads people to stupid incorrect conclusions. A quick read through the South Bend book would give 100% better results.

But you didn't watch the video so you don't really know what it was about. I turned it on for noise and ended up paying way more attention than planned. Now when I pick up some mystery insert, trying to diagnose either a cutting problem or trying to guestimate a DoC, I have some background into the how & why of the various chip breaker layouts.

Chip breaker design and performance is not something you can learn just by looking at inserts by various brands because they have their own designs. This was all the same, all the same, all the same, and let's change one variable to see the results.

Kinda' like the video that kicked off this thread...

 

[EmGo]

Now when I pick up some mystery insert, trying to diagnose either a cutting problem or trying to guestimate a DoC, I have some background into the how & why of the various chip breaker layouts.

Except this crap only applies when you are taking pissant little cuts. None of that has any bearing on 90% of what you do in a lathe, metal removal. None of it applies to facing. None of it applies to internal work. None of it was related to different materials. If you've ever actually run a lathe then you know that 8620 does not machine like 1018 does not machine like 9310 and this dumbass video did not even discuss the whys of chipbreaking.

It's basically useless because none of it applies to anything a real person would be faced with. There's not a nickel's worth of difference between any of those bumps anyhow, if you're taking a light finish cut in a stringy material then any bumps will do the job. Or maybe they won't, like if you're cutting 9310, good luck with the damn bumps you're going to have to find a different answer because then nothing works to break a light chip. Nothing.

It was pointless and stupid.

 

[gregormarwick]

But you didn't watch the video so you don't really know what it was about. I turned it on for noise and ended up paying way more attention than planned. Now when I pick up some mystery insert, trying to diagnose either a cutting problem or trying to guestimate a DoC, I have some background into the how & why of the various chip breaker layouts.

Chip breaker design and performance is not something you can learn just by looking at inserts by various brands because they have their own designs. This was all the same, all the same, all the same, and let's change one variable to see the results.

Kinda' like the video that kicked off this thread...

If it's something you actually want to learn about, buy https://www.amazon.com/Modern-Metal-Cutting-Practical-Handbook/dp/B000ARWOFM

It's about a thousand pages of fine text and diagrams, but after you've flicked through it you'll have a different perspective of videos like this one.

 

[Donkey Hotey]

Except this crap only applies when you are taking pissant little cuts. None of that has any bearing on 90% of what you do in a lathe, metal removal. None of it applies to facing. None of it applies to internal work. None of it was related to different materials. If you've ever actually run a lathe then you know that 8620 does not machine like 1018 does not machine like 9310 and this dumbass video did not even discuss the whys of chipbreaking.

It's basically useless because none of it applies to anything a real person would be faced with. There's not a nickel's worth of difference between any of those bumps anyhow, if you're taking a light finish cut in a stringy material then any bumps will do the job. Or maybe they won't, like if you're cutting 9310, good luck with the damn bumps you're going to have to find a different answer because then nothing works to break a light chip. Nothing.

It was pointless and stupid.

So you want an entire year's doctoral study on the subject condensed down to an hour or it's not valid? He got into some cutter path recommendations, talked about the shortcomings of G71 cycles vs using CAM to properly use the cutting faces. No, they didn't get into actually cutting other materials but, they did talk about it.

You don't have to like the videos.

If it's something you actually want to learn about, buy https://www.amazon.com/Modern-Metal-Cutting-Practical-Handbook/dp/B000ARWOFM

It's about a thousand pages of fine text and diagrams, but after you've flicked through it you'll have a different perspective of videos like this one.

I have a Sandvik PDF book that filled a 2" binder when I printed it to take on a business trip. Yes, I'm sure it's got even more wonderful information.

You guys act like if a person walks up to a booth at a trade show and the sales engineer doesn't give a full dissertation that it's somehow invalid.

I used to do technical training and got lots of training on adult learning styles. People are lucky to walk out of any kind of technical briefing and remember or understand more than 10-15% of the material. That means you could conceivably take the same training class 8-10 times before you'd know everything you were presented with in a "basics" class. I used to jump at the chance to retake training classes for all the little shortcuts that I surely missed the first time around.

If you guys know everything already, you're just special and super-awesome.

 

[rjwalker1973]

If you guys know everything already, you're just special and super-awesome.

Mama said i'm spacial......

 

[Houdini]

Mama said i'm spacial......

Yeah if your on PM, were all a little simple Jack special

 

[triumph406]

Really ? you missed the Smurfcam / Masterscam Wars ? I always thought the Smurf was a nicer program but ... you guys know how to make a feller feel old

I worked for a company that was a beta test site for Surfcam around 1990. I remember the transition from the DOS to Windows Surfcam at the time.

A few years later I think Surfcam was better then Mcam as Mcam had been working on a draughting module and neglected the nc side. At least that's what I remember.

What did Surfcam in was stalled development for years.

at that time, smurfcam really was a nicer, better program than masterscam. Only the good die young ?

When the Surfcam developers looked around at different CAD systems they decided that Cadkey had the best interface and decided to copy that. So a Cadkey driver had no trouble adapting to Surfcam

took me all of 10 minutes to upto speed with Surfcam (had more active brain cells then as well)