2nd hand machinery and tooling price in the USA, am I missing something?

[Peter Colman]

I think we have to look at the big picture, in the UK 20 years ago there were plenty of machines available and dealers selling them, now these machines have gone and the dealers with them, I could buy a BP Miller 25 years ago for £100 and a decent Colchester lathe for much the same, prices rose and have stayed up with the BP now about £1500 and the equivalent Colchester or Harrison 12" lathe about £1500 also. The prices I see on US ebay for lathes like Hardinge are miles higher than in the UK to the point where I could buy here and export and make money,I accept that shipping within the US and Canada is expensive but when it comes to smaller parts like dividing heads, toolposs etc the prices in the US are still pretty strong.
This means that the market is much stronger than in the U.K. with metal bashing still live and kicking, after all the price for used kit reflects the market price for the parts made using it.

 

[john.k]

A lot of engineering shop auctions ,you get bad vibes soon as you walk in the door....machine abuse,ways beat up by heavy objects,tooling minimal or mostly broken,.......and theres the sales where some machines are "ring ins",stuff from dealers trade ins they dont want to fix,or sell from their shop.....Then you walk into a shop ,and its like a 50s kitchen advert........everything is clean ,neat ,lovely......and you just know everything is going to go way over the odds..........then you got delivery/pickup conditions.....varies from back in your own truck and load........ to access only to our own contracted riggers and electricians.......mucho dollars,versus free load.

 

[zimbo]

Over here I don’t know of any shop doing production runs with a CNC of anything.
A friend before he left for Aussie had a cnc lathe and was turning out wheel studs and nuts for a local bus company. He sold that machine and I think it is hardly used at present . Majority of work done here is still done on manual machines. Even the guy who makes up my wheel studs uses a manual thread roller(is that the correct name for the machine)
I know of one cnc plasma machine 1.2x2.4m. A once biggest agricultural equipment manufacture here is running 1/4 staff and all their castings and parts are still run on old machines. Most everything is imported on the agri side as they still using designs from pre independence.

Another big engineering company that used to make axles, wheel hubs, brake drums and construct new trailer beds for mining and transport sector closed down about 3 yrs ago. All their kit sold for nearly nothing but was quiet beaten up. They did have a cnc that made the 5th wheel horse shoe but majority of work was on old manual machines.


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[stueeee]

The cost of labour must be a consideration in some places which are equipped mostly or completely with manual lathes and mills. When CNC started to become commonplace in the UK I happened to be looking for a small turret mill. At the machinery dealer I was looking at a CVA Mill. At the same time, there was an Indian guy there with a 40' shipping container buying machine after machine (some were real museum pieces) and getting the dealer to load them with a forklift. When I asked the buyer whether he was going to buy any CNC equipment, he said that in India he could employ a skilled man for a tiny fraction of the cost of a modern machining centre, so having CNC didn't make financial sense.

 

[DJ2]

There is something that hit me the second I saw this video, there are not enough people in the crowd to create competition and drive up the prices. Poor attendance is the reason for the low prices. I have been to one or two auctions like this and it is a “turkey shoot”, you pay what you want. Add fifty or a hundred guys and it changes the whole auction. As said above, the focus was apparently on moving the big stuff, but if you cornered the owner and asked about the prices on the small stuff, he would have said something like “gee, I could have done better myself on Craig’s List”.

 

[NAST555]

oh I get it - then again, something like 40% of americans own guns, why wouldn't south africans?, Slavery was legal in some parts of Africa until well into the 20th century, South Africa is remembered for apartheid, and substantial numbers of people visit Africa (the continent) to see Lions and Elephants.
sure, some of those questions are like asking a Texan if they have ever slept in an igloos are a real thing, albeit from rather far away on the same continent.\

but of course Zimbo lists a location of Zimbabwe, which is a different country than South Africa....

on the other hand, I have long association with a group running a factory in Kenya to build clean cookstoves, and have seen the issues with machinery rather directly. it is uneven - things like kaeser compressors and medium to large forklifts are directly available locally. all manner of other things have to be imported.

for example as of a few month ago, they were still buying drills from a supplier in Seattle metro (same supplier I use) - because there no industrial suppliers of drills in all of Kenya, at least that can be found. (you could but drills, but only in sets - period. if you want say 400 #24 drills you had to import them.)

All valid points, I convinced people that I had a pet elephant in my back yard when I was over in Scotland...
Now Kenya, I have never had the privilege of visiting there but my girlfriend has (her brother works for the BBC over there), but apparently it is a truly beautiful country. I am a Caucasian male ,South African born, and am still in awe when I see how amazing our wildlife here is. Even the Asshole hyenas are incredible to see in the wild.

Truthfully South Africa is heavily industrialised. There is a reason why so many vehicle manufacturers are present here. Just because I run a cnc machining shop does not mean that I am the only one. This is where I am situated ABB in South Africa: Alrode and ABB is just one of the big guys in my area.

"AFRICA AFRICA" has it's difficulties when it comes to industry, like you have pointed out, and unfortunately small industry gets raped with prices because of their lack of knowledge. South Africa is just up the "road". I jointly own a company that is a distributor for FEW,SOMTA,EMUGE,Lukas abrasives etc etc (Won't put the name up here as I am not here to advertise) and the folks further up Africa still get raped with prices because they are out in "AFRICA". We stock used tools as well because let's be honest, a 50mm drill is damn pricey if you only need it for one hole, so we stock things that guys can buy to "get it done". Only issue with the business model is that we are too damn honest

 

[bryan_machine]

And of course, my friends in Kenya often find it cheaper and sometimes faster to import things via air or sea from Europe or the USA than from SA. Roads are a special sore point.....

The big issue with all of this is that it is very hard to see how living standards can improve without industrialization and other development of capacity and productivity in the local political economies.

 

[NAST555]

How true. I was bombarded with questions like that when I first moved to the states. A joke I would play on different loan officers was that I wanted to apply for some African American programs as I was born in Africa and was an American thanks to my father, all said with a serious face. The PC would kick in and most folks wouldn't know how to respond and where to look!

When I realized the Myford super 7 I had bought when most folks 1st started leaving Zim in 2001/2 was not upto par with the kind of work I was wanting to do. I had contacted a few "Sharks/ Tsotsies" in SA thanks to Gumtree, similar to CL in the states. It was too much bird dogging to find the gems and then get someone to go and run the machine, tractor etc or take a flight down to check it out.
Nasst555, wish I had known about your company back then. Drop me an email pls as I have a few questions about the Mark 2 you currently working on.

There was a machine shop store in Richmond, VA I visited on a trip several years back and picked up a few things. My luggage was the limiting factor. They used to sell tools by the bucket load for like $10-$20 and had loads of older machines. The guy mentioned a chap from Nigeria used to come to the East coast once a year and buy up containers of machine tools and machinery.

Zimbo, I'll be honest. The Mark 2 was one of a few that we got in from a training college. We converted the cross slide to metric with dials and a new screw and kept the one for ourselves, the only one we didn't test. I was training an apprentice and though the machine was a good starting point for him. Tried to make a big cut and got crazy chatter. Tightened the bearings as much as permissible and still had the issue.

Stripped them out and realised that it was probably the only one that they actually used at the college. It had decent wear and now I have asked my Uncle in Australia to directly deal with the Gamet dealership there to try get a better deal, thanks to the amazing help that i got on this forum, because the lead time on new bearings was crazy. There is no way that I could sell it to you and be able to sleep at night in the condition it is at the moment. Will be a damn shame though because once it has it's new bearings it will be "as new". Not the damn painted versions that I mentioned in my earlier post that you will often see

 

[NAST555]

And of course, my friends in Kenya often find it cheaper and sometimes faster to import things via air or sea from Europe or the USA than from SA. Roads are a special sore point.....

The big issue with all of this is that it is very hard to see how living standards can improve without industrialization and other development of capacity and productivity in the local political economies.

They would do. It is because of our terrible marketing strategy. They will find the easiest route for themselves

 

[zimbo]

Nast,
I have the flat top Mark 2 and was thinking either changing to metric screws and dials or go straight and install a DRO from Neels at CPF technologies. quote seems to be reasonable from him for the BP but he is not sure how difficult it will be to add it to the lathe, esp the cross slide. Any thoughts?
Is there a scrapper who deals in machine parts down there?

 

[gwelo62]

When I was an appie in the 80's, Connoly's in Bulawayo had just got some NC machines. A bloke from Harare(at Bulawayo Tech) was programming at his employer. I assume Nimrs,Issels and the Harare counterparts are gone. What happened to all their machines? About ten years ago my employer(in the US) sold 10 IR molding machines for $1000 each. The next time they just scrapped them because the dealers truckers(French Canadians) were too much hassle.
The locals don't know how to handle things when my blond,blue-eyed daughter tells them she is an Afro-Squared-American - she has 3 birth certificates - Zim,RSA and US! The more PC they are, the more of a bind they get into.

Used equipment here is affordable but I think you get a better selection and prices 'up north,' unless you get lucky at an auction.

I sent you a message btw.

 

[shpxnvz]

There was a machine shop store in Richmond, VA I visited on a trip several years back and picked up a few things. My luggage was the limiting factor. They used to sell tools by the bucket load for like $10-$20 and had loads of older machines. The guy mentioned a chap from Nigeria used to come to the East coast once a year and buy up containers of machine tools and machinery.

Sounds like Dempsey's, used to be on West Leigh Street.

 

[zimbo]

Sounds like Dempsey's, used to be on West Leigh Street.

That’s right, Noel I dealt with. Called them a year or so ago wanting tooling to fill my wife’s immigration container and they had moved out of Richmond. She had space to fill but didn’t have time to go out there for me.


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