A bit O/T - need advice on a pistol for the wife

[MetalCarnage]

We made it to the range today! I consider it a huge success as, after 100 rounds down range, the wife felt that the recoil was acceptable and the gun was a good fit. On top of that I tested out the previously mentioned Ruger Mark I that I went over and de-burred, etc. and it functioned flawlessly.

The wife was having a bit of an issue trying to pack all 15 rounds in to the magazine (I told her that she didn't have to do all 15 ). To take care of that issue I got online and ordered her an UpLULA loader...

I'm counting this as a "good day".

-Ron

 

[Doran]

Glad all went well at the range. New magazine springs will eventually take a set making them easier to load after some use. You might try leaving the magazines fully loaded between range sessions for a while to speed that along.

 

[MetalCarnage]

Glad all went well at the range. New magazine springs will eventually take a set making them easier to load after some use. You might try leaving the magazines fully loaded between range sessions for a while to speed that along.

That's an interesting thought. I've always been adverse to leaving magazines loaded due to the possibility of the springs taking a "set" and then not loading correctly. My caution on this dates back 30 or 40 years or more as this was considered a "no no" at the time. Has it been decided that it was a "old wive's tale" or has the spring technology changed?

Interested to hear some input on this.

Thanks,

-Ron

 

[Artv]

That's an interesting thought. I've always been adverse to leaving magazines loaded due to the possibility of the springs taking a "set" and then not loading correctly. My caution on this dates back 30 or 40 years or more as this was considered a "no no" at the time. Has it been decided that it was a "old wive's tale" or has the spring technology changed?

Interested to hear some input on this.

Thanks,

-Ron

My Colt Gold Cup (1975) has been loaded some 40 years, and I put a box of ammo through it every month at the range. The only problem I've had is stovepiping when firing range loads, so I use full 230 grain box ammo in it. Mag spring doesn't have any bearing on stovepiping, it is the heavy recoil spring.

Art

 

[Doran]

Magazine and other springs fatigue from cycling; loading/unloading. If you compare a new magazine spring to a used one the new spring will be longer until used for a time. Spring materials and design have advanced in the last 30-40-70 yrs but I've shot WWII 1911 magazines filled with WWII ammunition likely loaded during or shortly after the war without issues. People in the action shooting sports usually change springs (magazine, recoil, etc) every few thousand rounds.

 

[jakefreese]

On the mag spring I have a Ruger p89 that has been loaded since 1998 with no issues. My wife and i both carry LCR's her ammo is standard 38 special and I run the +p. We also have a xds in 9mm and 45 that makes it through the carry rotation also.

 

[MetalCarnage]

Thanks guys. I will force myself to get over my "loaded magazine phobia" although I'll still keep a revolver for my "night stand" gun. ("loaded magazine phobia" was just one of the reasons I chose a revolver)

-Ron

 

[Doran]

I'll add you must buy quality springs. I get my replacements from companies like Wolff Gunsprings or similar that use proper spring wire; cheap springs might be made of anything.

 

[Dorsal Spine]

I'm late to this thread but I'll add my $.02. I keep six Glock mags in my gun bag. Three are loaded, Three are unloaded. I usually go to the range at least once a month. I rotate the mags because I was worried about the springs. Six years later and I'm still using the same mags with the same springs. I've never had a spring problem with a quality mag after thousands of rounds.

 

[MetalCarnage]

I'll add you must buy quality springs. I get my replacements from companies like Wolff Gunsprings or similar that use proper spring wire; cheap springs might be made of anything.

Good advice. I've used Wolff springs in my Ruger Vaqueros as well as a couple other guns. I hadn't thought of them for magazine springs though, thanks.

I'm late to this thread but I'll add my $.02. I keep six Glock mags in my gun bag. Three are loaded, Three are unloaded. I usually go to the range at least once a month. I rotate the mags because I was worried about the springs. Six years later and I'm still using the same mags with the same springs. I've never had a spring problem with a quality mag after thousands of rounds.

That sounds like a practical approach (and good practice) for "peace of mind" and it alleviates any concern about long term "set" on the springs. I do wonder though if there have been any studies done on spring set, length of time, etc. to either verify or debunk the notion. I don't personally recall any but I may have missed something over the years. A quick google search comes up with mixed results. I see a lot of "spring set = urban legend" but also claims that it is real.

-Ron

 

[GGaskill]

You never know because the "studies" are usually not sufficiently focused. But I am a believer in the "shooter is the weakest link" school of thought. That is, more concern should be directed to practice than to magazine spring failure.

 

[mfim]

I am 70 yr old toolmaker machinist and gunsmith. This works for me. I am not saying it would be ideal for your spouse. I use .357 double action, 2 in. barrel, hammerless revolver. Carry with .357 rounds. Target with cheap, low recoil, .38 wadcutters, and a few of my .357 carry rounds,. At 15 to 30 feet, they all go into a group I can cover with my hand. I point the gun with both eyes open. Being a gunsmith I would never trust my life on a semi auto or a single action revolver. I prefer this because if the moment ever comes, I need something that I can start pulling the trigger and keep pulling the trigger till the threat or me is stopped. If you are trying to struggle with the threat with one hand and handling your weapon with the other hand, you do not have a third hand available for yanking the slide on a semi auto.

 

[9100]

I can only say that I have had a couple of magazines loaded for many years and have not had a failure. Other than that, I am not taking a stand, but I think I can offer some constructive comment. Probably the best way to make a spring is to form it from annealed stock and harden and temper it in that shape. However, most coiled springs are not made that way. If you wind spring wire, so called "music wire", on a mandrel or form it with a spring winder, it must be stressed past the yield point to change its shape. When released, it will spring back some and appear to be relaxed, but actually it is almost entirely under severe internal stress. The inside of the curve will be compressively stressed and the outer portion will be under tensile stress part way out and compressive again in the outermost area that has stretched the most and is holding the wire in a curve. Extending or compressing the spring will push part past the yield point and the spring takes a set. I made a set of springs to be used in a setup where they held an assembly that moved both directions from center. When moved a significant amount, it did not return to center but would only come part way back. Another RTFM instance. The ASTME Tool Engineer's Handbook said to stress relieve springs but I didn't bother. When things didn't work, I stretched the springs back to the original length and gave them a couple of hours bake. After that, they performed exactly as the handbook predicted. Presumably the makers of high quality magazine springs are following all the proper procedures for long life. You will have to pay for the extra work, but again, you get what you pay for.

Bill

 

[MetalCarnage]

I am 70 yr old toolmaker machinist and gunsmith. This works for me. I am not saying it would be ideal for your spouse. I use .357 double action, 2 in. barrel, hammerless revolver. Carry with .357 rounds. Target with cheap, low recoil, .38 wadcutters, and a few of my .357 carry rounds,. At 15 to 30 feet, they all go into a group I can cover with my hand. I point the gun with both eyes open. Being a gunsmith I would never trust my life on a semi auto or a single action revolver. I prefer this because if the moment ever comes, I need something that I can start pulling the trigger and keep pulling the trigger till the threat or me is stopped. If you are trying to struggle with the threat with one hand and handling your weapon with the other hand, you do not have a third hand available for yanking the slide on a semi auto.

I'm a big fan and firm believer in revolvers as well. As I've said before I keep one for my nightstand and another for my "truck" gun. I'd love to use one for concealed carry but the lure of extra fire power and slimmer profile really makes the semi-autos hard to ignore. I do love my Sigs.

I can only say that I have had a couple of magazines loaded for many years and have not had a failure. Other than that, I am not taking a stand, but I think I can offer some constructive comment. Probably the best way to make a spring is to form it from annealed stock and harden and temper it in that shape. However, most coiled springs are not made that way. If you wind spring wire, so called "music wire", on a mandrel or form it with a spring winder, it must be stressed past the yield point to change its shape. When released, it will spring back some and appear to be relaxed, but actually it is almost entirely under severe internal stress. The inside of the curve will be compressively stressed and the outer portion will be under tensile stress part way out and compressive again in the outermost area that has stretched the most and is holding the wire in a curve. Extending or compressing the spring will push part past the yield point and the spring takes a set. I made a set of springs to be used in a setup where they held an assembly that moved both directions from center. When moved a significant amount, it did not return to center but would only come part way back. Another RTFM instance. The ASTME Tool Engineer's Handbook said to stress relieve springs but I didn't bother. When things didn't work, I stretched the springs back to the original length and gave them a couple of hours bake. After that, they performed exactly as the handbook predicted. Presumably the makers of high quality magazine springs are following all the proper procedures for long life. You will have to pay for the extra work, but again, you get what you pay for.

Bill

Thanks Bill. My knowledge of spring materials is close to nil, so I tend to be fascinated with any first-hand knowledge.

-Ron

 

[9100]

I am 70 yr old toolmaker machinist and gunsmith. This works for me. I am not saying it would be ideal for your spouse. I use .357 double action, 2 in. barrel, hammerless revolver. Carry with .357 rounds. Target with cheap, low recoil, .38 wadcutters, and a few of my .357 carry rounds,. At 15 to 30 feet, they all go into a group I can cover with my hand. I point the gun with both eyes open. Being a gunsmith I would never trust my life on a semi auto or a single action revolver. I prefer this because if the moment ever comes, I need something that I can start pulling the trigger and keep pulling the trigger till the threat or me is stopped. If you are trying to struggle with the threat with one hand and handling your weapon with the other hand, you do not have a third hand available for yanking the slide on a semi auto.

I have read, maybe in the Lyman Handbook, that a handgun will shoot high with heavy bullets compared to lighter ones because the barrel will rise more before the bullet exits. The rise is fairly independent of the velocity because a higher one causes a faster rise and exits sooner, cancelling the two variations. I have never done a controlled test.

In an account of the attempted assassination of President Truman, the author states that the Secret Service men practiced with .38 target reloads and used full powered ammunition on duty. One of the guards tried a head shot, but just grazed the top of the assassin's head because the full loads elevated the gun more. Have you seen this effect?

My shop gun is a S&W Highway Patrolman .357 loaded with +P .38s on the theory that with the long barrel they are going to be moving along right smartly and full magnum loads increase the chance of going through a wall and hitting a neighbor. I replaced a 1911 with the revolver because I am more accurate with it and the auto, even with the ejection port opened up and a combat ejector, will still hang a shell on occasion but the revolver always, always works. I figure that if I can't settle the issue with 6 shots, it is beyond hope, anyway.

Bill

 

[MetalCarnage]

Agree completely Bill,

Can't beat the 12 gauge for "stopping power". As well as the "bed side" revolver kept on my night stand (in a GunVault) I also keep a Mossberg 590 pump loaded with #00 buck handy (nothing like the sound of a slide racking). Whichever I can get to first.

-Ron

 

[Doran]

Heavier projectiles tend to print higher, all else being equal, but not enough "across the room" to make much difference in a defense situation.

I keep #1 buck in my 870. A friend was a DEA agent and the point man through the door on raids. He used a SB 870 loaded with #1 buck.

 

[Grumpy365]

Ok, I appologize I haven't read the entire thread, but here it goes.

No matter what all these yahoos tell you most women don't have the arm/ hand strength to consistently put a round in an automatic.

And a .22 cal is good for plinking, but is not / will never be a round you should bet your life on (and if you invision any concealed carry that IS what you are doing)

Your wife won't carry a heavy gun. She may claim she will and it will last less than a week, before it is permanently assigned to glove box/ night stand / safe etc.

An air weight revolver will be no fun to plink with (because there is not enough mass to absorb the discharge) BUT in my opinion is still good for Concealed carry. In a excited situation you will be so amped up you will never feel the gun go off.

My wife carries the Sig .380 (which was one of the only automatics she could jack a round in to) or a S&W revolver with a trigger job (because it takes someone with gorilla fingers to pull the stock trigger on the modern S&W's)

 

[MetalCarnage]

Ok, I appologize I haven't read the entire thread, but here it goes.

No matter what all these yahoos tell you most women don't have the arm/ hand strength to consistently put a round in an automatic.

And a .22 cal is good for plinking, but is not / will never be a round you should bet your life on (and if you invision any concealed carry that IS what you are doing)

Your wife won't carry a heavy gun. She may claim she will and it will last less than a week, before it is permanently assigned to glove box/ night stand / safe etc.

An air weight revolver will be no fun to plink with (because there is not enough mass to absorb the discharge) BUT in my opinion is still good for Concealed carry. In a excited situation you will be so amped up you will never feel the gun go off.

My wife carries the Sig .380 (which was one of the only automatics she could jack a round in to) or a S&W revolver with a trigger job (because it takes someone with gorilla fingers to pull the stock trigger on the modern S&W's)

Let me fill you in a bit then. The wife is planning to carry the Ruger LCP (in .380) for her "purse" gun. It's not a lot of fun to shoot on the range and that's why I had her try my Ruger Mark I. She had feed problems with the Mark I and plenty of ignorant derision from the range guys (bunch of twits). We went and looked at guns. She like the feel of the Sig 226 in 9mm. I fixed the Ruger Mark I now it performs beautifully but in the mean time I ordered her a new Sig 226. We got the 226 and took it to the range. She found it "acceptable". She went to one of her "range meetings" with the Well Armed Woman group, had a great time, and burned up 150 rounds in her Sig 226. She now really, really likes her Sig! She showed me the paper plates they were shooting at and she put about 90% of the shots in a six inch circle, shooting off-hand, at whatever distance they were shooting at.

I'd say she can handle the Sig 226 VERY well. Don't let anyone tell you that a woman can't handle a full size pistol.

-Ron

 

[Lassen Forge]

...She now really, really likes her Sig! She showed me the paper plates they were shooting at and she put about 90% of the shots in a six inch circle, shooting off-hand, at whatever distance they were shooting at. I'd say she can handle the Sig 226 VERY well. Don't let anyone tell you that a woman can't handle a full size pistol.

First time I ever shot at plates was my CCW class... I found it awesome, as they are cheap targets, and make a good bullseye - you want a smaller target, move the plate further downrange. I throw a Shoot-n-c disk in the middle, and was amazed how awesome they work!
And yes, NEVER tell a woman she can't handle a full sized pistol... says this woman who shoote a matched pair of Glock 30's for fun and concealment. ;-) Compared to the PPKs, I really do prefer the 45 ACP. (Now if I can just find somewhere I can get powder for reloads!)

Sus @ the Forge