How Much Would Your Lathe Cost Today?

[Monarchist]

Cazaneuve, Pinacho, Schaublin, Weiler, Meuser, and a host of Bulgarian, Polish, Czech, and Romanian companies still make "manual" lathes, although, as Monarchist mentioned, many now included built in DROs, and often digital threading.

Oh, way more than THAT! Optika and Optimax are still "manual' in that separate CAD MAY exist. But do not have to.

There's an English-narrated version of Cazeneuve's schtick on the 'tube.
Operator inputs everything needed for straight, taper, complex curve, and threading directly on the touch-screen right at the legacy carriage-position:

CAZENEUVE - Optica Siemens English - YouTube

 

[old_dave]

In my file of South Bend stuff I found a print-out from rec.crafts.metalworking, a report on then current prices of the Heavy 10. In April 1997 the engine lathe model, catalog # CL187RB was $12,575 and the tool room model, catalog # CL8187RB was $15,500.
David

 

[ja762]

In my file of South Bend stuff I found a print-out from rec.crafts.metalworking, a report on then current prices of the Heavy 10. In April 1997 the engine lathe model, catalog # CL187RB was $12,575 and the tool room model, catalog # CL8187RB was $15,500.
David

In 1967 that model (catalog # CL187RB) sold for $1685. If the price increased commensurate with the rate of inflation you would expect it to cost $8097 in 1997, and 12,366 in 2017. Instead, it already cost over 12,500 by 97. Makes you wonder what was going on that South Bend had to increase the price of their product at twice the rate of inflation.

 

[Monarchist]

In 1967 that model sold for $1685. If the price increased commensurate with the rate of inflation you would expect it to cost $8097 in 1997, and 12,366 in 2017. Instead, it already cost over 12,500 by 97. Makes you wonder what was going on that South Bend had to increase the price of their product at twice the rate of inflation.

Unit volume they could sell had probably dropped to less than a third of what it had been, is what was most likely going on. Labour costs wudda been going up, old-line craftsmen retired, skills not easily replaced, machinery of production going worn-out, not modernized...

Anyone have sales figures in UNITS by year?

 

[old_dave]

I bought a South Bend Heavy 10, engine lathe model, 3 1/2 foot bed, new in May 1979. Its price was $3535.00 not including sales tax or shipping from South Bend to Joe Jean Co., Belmont California. Standard equipment included was a lantern style tool post, two morse taper centers, a sleeve for the spindle to hold one of the centers and a drive plate. That was it. No motor, no drum switch, no chuck, no etc. I bought a 4 jaw chuck and a drum switch from South Bend when I bought the lathe. Got a single phase 3/4 H.P. motor from Sears. Already had an Aloris tool post and some holders from my previous lathe.

David

 

[old_dave]

Cazaneuve, Pinacho, Schaublin, Weiler, Meuser, and a host of Bulgarian, Polish, Czech, and Romanian companies still make "manual" lathes, although, as Monarchist mentioned, many now included built in DROs, and often digital threading. All are in the $100,000 and up range. Even a lowly Schaublin 102, fully tooled, would probably hit a hundred K by the time it was cleared customs and delivered to a residential US address.
And they all sell them- to industry. There is no way that a modern, high quality machine tool can compete with chinese built kits, and the europeans, koreans, brazilians, and japanese dont even try. They add the electronics because the customers want it- digital threading, in a toolroom lathe, is just a no-brainer these days, when a new Haas toolroom lathe is cheaper than a rebuilt 10EE from Monarch.
There is virtually no hobby market outside the USA, and it is served by Grizzly, here- Americans are notorious cheapskates.

There is, of course, a hobby market in Great Britain. After all arguably the hobby started there. And look here: Warco | Buy Lathe, Milling Machine, Engineering Tools This is from the model engineer forum. These Warco machines are even green, though it looks like a different shade than Grizzly green. And I'm afraid I have to agree with your "notorious cheapskates" comment.

David

 

[ja762]

I bought a South Bend Heavy 10, engine lathe model, 3 1/2 foot bed, new in May 1979. Its price was $3535.00 not including sales tax or shipping from South Bend to Joe Jean Co., Belmont California. Standard equipment included was a lantern style tool post, two morse taper centers, a sleeve for the spindle to hold one of the centers and a drive plate. That was it. No motor, no drum switch, no chuck, no etc. I bought a 4 jaw chuck and a drum switch from South Bend when I bought the lathe. Got a single phase 3/4 H.P. motor from Sears. Already had an Aloris tool post and some holders from my previous lathe.

It cost the same as it did in '67 when adjusted for inflation. ($11,800 today)

 

[ja762]

Unit volume they could sell had probably dropped to less than a third of what it had been, is what was most likely going on. Labour costs wudda been going up, old-line craftsmen retired, skills not easily replaced, machinery of production going worn-out, not modernized...

Anyone have sales figures in UNITS by year?

I haven't been able to find any production figures at all. Going by serial #'s I can surmise the numbers for the 40's, 50's & 60s, but once you hit the 70's the trail dries up.

 

[howieranger]

I wonder how much modern CNC manufacturing would have been able to hold down the cost of comparable lathes if there was enough volume. I would think that for a lot of the parts, shafts, spindle, machining the headstock castings etc. would be less expensive to machine with todays manufacturing. The comparison of the Standard Modern 13"X34" Canadian made to the SB 1049 Taiwanese lathe is interesting. The SB is about $3500.00 cheaper, 700lbs. heavier and somewhat better equipped with a wider and deeper bed. I have had a 1049 for about 2 years and it seems to be very well made but I have never used a SM lathe so I cannot comment on the quality difference or similarities.

 

[Monarchist]

I wonder how much modern CNC manufacturing would have been able to hold down the cost of comparable lathes if there was enough volume. I would think that for a lot of the parts, shafts, spindle, machining the headstock castings etc. would be less expensive to machine with todays manufacturing. The comparison of the Standard Modern 13"X34" Canadian made to the SB 1049 Taiwanese lathe is interesting. The SB is about $3500.00 cheaper, 700lbs. heavier and somewhat better equipped with a wider and deeper bed. I have had a 1049 for about 2 years and it seems to be very well made but I have never used a SM lathe so I cannot comment on the quality difference or similarities.

"Volume" is key.

It isn't just that manuals have largely been displaced by CNC.

"Subtractive" machining has lost market share in general to changes in:

- method (higher-precision casting, EDM, laser, waterjet cutting, better weldments, and now even 3D printing).

- materials (better plastics and ever-more exotic fibers reinforcing better-yet plastics)

Even where subtractive machine survives, skilled labour to use it effectively has not, and "fat" financial resources to tolerate slower throughput have not. Ergo one "HSM" CNC machining center doesn't idle ONE manual machine tool. It can idle several dozen at a go.

Hammers are a klew. Framers, roofers, remodelers still have their "usual" in toolbelt or on the truck. But they are setting their fasteners out of magazines on air or electric "guns".

Not a clock as can be turned back. Not a manufacturer who even wants to do when the path to survival and profit lies ahead. Not behind.