Material to use as a thrust washer in a model T engine

[Dave123]

I am installing a crankshaft into a model T engine. This project involves pouring Babbitt bearings. On a model T the thrust surface is on the rear main bearing. For this engine I want to use a bronze thrust rather than Babbitt. This I have done previously and I am happy with the results.
Problem is I need to source some bronze,
Question is, are there different grades of bronze ?

Dave

 

[sfriedberg]

Yes, many. Hundreds on the books, dozens widely commercially available, several available in retail quantities.
You probably want C93200 aka SAE 660, or C87850. Both are standard bearing bronzes. The former has lead, the latter is lead-free. But as I said, there are hundreds of bronze alloys on the books, and many of them are suitable as bearing material.

If I were you, I would search for a ready-made bronze thrust washer, perhaps a bit oversized that could be machined to fit your application. This would be a lot more economical than buying a chunk of bronze stock.

I don't know if it is suitable for in-engine use, but SAE 841 sintered bronze aka Oilite is a very common, pre-oil-impregnated self-lubricating bearing material.

 

[Thunderjet]

If I were you, I would search for a ready-made bronze thrust washer, perhaps a bit oversized that could be machined to fit your application. This would be a lot more economical than buying a chunk of bronze stock.

What he said^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[Dave123]

gotcha

 

[AlfaGTA]

660 bronze. 841 is not structural enough to be a stand alone thrust bearing.
Commercially made thrust washers are generally steel backed with a bronze layer and Babbitt facing.
Best arrangement is a pair of bronze bearing shells that have flanges that form the thrust. The bearing is Babbitted then finish to fit the crank journal. Flange faces finished at the same time to give the required thrust.
Flange faces either have Babbitt or left bronze. Babbitt will have lower friction than bronze.
Realize this might not be an option as I believe Mode”T’s” pour their mains directly in the cap and block.

Cheers Ross

 

[GregSY]

There a hundred grades of just about anything. Me? I prefer military grade, though I know a lot of other geniuses - all of whom are smarter than me - who prefer aircraft grade. All of them, together, are smarter than me.

 

[Firstram]

There a hundred grades of just about anything. Me? I prefer military grade, though I know a lot of other geniuses - all of whom are smarter than me - who prefer aircraft grade. All of them, together, are smarter than me.

It's good to see the old, less than helpful forum members are still alive and well. I was wondering why this place didn't didn't feel so nasty anymore!!

 

[Bill D]

No one has replied to use some super duper plastic instead of metal? Does a model T have an oil filter? I assume it has an oil pump.
Bill D

 

[john.k]

No they dont have an oil pump ........oil is thrown up into a gallery that oils the mains ......the rods are splash.....Id use a bronze washer with a babbit lining ....plain bronze may score the thrust face .......knowing H Ford ,the thrust would have been included in one of the mains ,eliminate an extra part is another million dollars saved.

 

[Dan from Oakland]

John- no oil gallery in a T engine- I'm pretty sure the later A engine (1928-1931) had the oil gallery that fed the mains.

 

[EmGo]

John- no oil gallery in a T engine- I'm pretty sure the later A engine (1928-1931) had the oil gallery that fed the mains.

Are you sure ? Maybe someone with an A or T block lying around could check ?

 

[AlfaGTA]

Does it matter re the thrust?
Cheers Ross

 

[EmGo]

Does it matter re the thrust?

Kind of an in-joke, sorry. Mr Oakland has more than a passing experience with the model t and a. It's kinda like asking Jerry Rice if he'd like to go play catch ...

btw, I've only seen the insides of a few and would have to say, there's about fifty places to better spend one's time than this particular project. But to each his own.

 

[???]

It's good to see the old, less than helpful forum members are still alive and well. I was wondering why this place didn't didn't feel so nasty anymore!!

It's good to see the newer members are prepared to step up to the plate and be the self proclaimed internet police.

 

[Limy Sami]

It's good to see the old, less than helpful forum members are still alive and well. I was wondering why this place didn't didn't feel so nasty anymore!!

Trouble maker huh? .......... still, we know who's cleaning out the sumps, 1st shift after the Christmas break.

 

[Joe Gwinn]

I am installing a crankshaft into a model T engine. This project involves pouring Babbitt bearings. On a model T the thrust surface is on the rear main bearing. For this engine I want to use a bronze thrust rather than Babbitt. This I have done previously and I am happy with the results.
Problem is I need to source some bronze,
Question is, are there different grades of bronze ?

Dave

Why not mold cast the washer from Babbitt alloy?

 

[Bill D]

My sister had the last year VW air cooled beetle. 1973? It had an oil pump but no filter just a piece of window screen in the sump.
Bill D

 

[Firstram]

Trouble maker huh? .......... still, we know who's cleaning out the sumps, 1st shift after the Christmas break.

I spent a few years in wastewater treatment, not bothered by nasty