Meuser Lathe Wooden Gear?

[ThatGuysFarm]

We just picked up a Meuser & Co 9050 1952 lathe. We re in the process of getting it hooked up and were cleaning it as it's been sitting awhile, opened up the end and a gear was missing some teeth. We removed the gear and turns out it is wood. Is this factory? I've never seen a wooden gear on a lathe, I'm not a lathe guru by any means either. Anyone know where we can get a replacement? We are thinking about 3D scanning it and then maybe 3D print one out of plastic? I attached pictures of the lathe and the wooden gear. Any info would be great, thanks.

 

[Limy Sami]

I''m pretty sure it's not wood, or if it is, it SHOULD be resin bonded cloth known as ''Tufnol'' in the UK, ........ of which there are several varieties, and when making gears one must use the correct variety with the gears being cut from plate, rather than turned from bar or rod.

 

[pcd]

Yes I think that's factory. Mine has a white plastic gear in that location, but it's a bit newer than yours.

This idler gear drives threading and power feed. I actually removed mine for a little while because there's so much gear noise when that stuff is churning. Point is, you can do lots with the lathe with that gear missing. And since it looks like you just bought it I'd run it that way for a while to make sure that you like it and there's nothing else wrong.

The gear probably stripped because of a crash. I'd check everything else over first to make sure it's the only problem. Also, this lathe probably has plain journal spindle bearings, which might be worn out and aren't really replaceable, though they are adjustable.

Meuser is still in business and I'd contact them about a replacement. Prepare for a high price, needing to pester them, and possibly needing to ship them the gear since they seem not have drawings anymore for specific old machines. They'll probably email you a manual and parts breakdown.

Resin-impregnated wood was, and still is, a thing. Goes by names like Permali.

9050 is the serial number of the lathe; not a model.

Remove the strainer from the sump and vacuum out all the goop that you'll find down there. Also, there's probably a band brake hidden in the back right corner of the headstock. Tightening that up a bit will make the spindle stop much faster.

The manual will have good info about oiling which is especially important given the plain bearings.

 

[L Vanice]

My 1969 Volvo 164 6-cylinder engine had the large timing gear made of phenolic resin with embedded cloth. I only know that because two of those gears lost teeth and left me stranded in the ten years I drove that car. My Emco Maximat V10 lathe had one gear in the power feed/threading train made of something that looked like Delrin. It failed soon after I got the lathe. I understand such non-metallic gears are often used because they cause less noise than a steel gear. They are considered "strong enough" until they fail.

I have a lot of the phenolic sheet with canvas, linen and glass reinforcement in my shop and find it useful for various things, but never made a gear out of it.

Larry

 

[john.k]

Id think a large phenolic gear would be around $1500-2000 USD ...........Id suggest 3d printing a rim ,and fixing it to the existing hub.

 

[john.k]

Didnt the Chev stovebolt six have a phenolic cam gear ?

 

[Dan from Oakland]

Many machines and engines use gears made from either molded or sheet phenolic material. Its not that unusual at all. But- its definitely not "wood". The base material is fabric- usually canvas or linen that has been impregnated with phenolic resin and than cured under heat and pressure.

 

[guythatbrews]

That stuff is called micarta in 'Merica, and it is commonly used to reduce gear noise. We used to call them horse piss gears because we were told that was in the phenolic recipe. Your gear looks like it has a grain because it was turned crooked somehow and different layers are breaking through the face, making it look like wood grain.

Any good gear shop can either make the whole gear, or some will cut teeth in your blank.

 

[Bill D]

My Harrison m300(1976) has a similar gear. It is designed to fail like a fuse in a crash rather than more expensive stuff. Atlas used cast Zamac(pot metal) gears
Bill D

 

[CalG]

The " resin impregnated fabric" materials abound.
IIRC each "fabric" determines the trade name. "Micarta" being linen, who knows what hemp might be?
There is a big wheel on the Weiler LZ that is fabric.

It's not difficult to "roll your own" for some applications. It's a messy task however.

I have been known to use old shower curtains (polyester) and epoxy. (3M 2216 is very good, but $$, Epo-tec has good options. Heck, J-B weld has good numbers)
Cutting many like shaped fabric pieces, saturating each with epoxy while placed between plastic film. Stacking all the pieces and pressing under the Carver hydraulic press.

As mentioned, MESSY
Necessity being what it is.....

 

[guythatbrews]

IIRC each "fabric" determines the trade name. "Micarta" being linen, who knows what hemp might be?

Curiosity got the better of me, so I looked this up. From wikipedia:

"Micarta is a brand name for composites of linen, canvas, paper, fiberglass, carbon fiber, or other fabric in a thermosetting plastic. It was originally used in electrical and decorative applications. Micarta was developed by George Westinghouse at least as early as 1910 using phenolic resins invented by Leo Baekeland. These resins were used to impregnate paper and cotton fabric which were cured under pressure and high temperature to produce laminates."

And if you were wondering, I did, Leo Baekland was a Belgian, and yes, he invented bakelite.

BTW, if you don't know much about the redoutable George Westinghouse, check him out. It's a good story.

Back in my gear making days, we said micarta. I think the generic name for stuff suitable for gears is linen- phenolic laminate. I never liked to machine it. The cuttings are a dusty, yellow, stinking mess.

 

[CalG]

Stinky is right!

 

[john.k]

Micarta can also be used in heavily loaded bearings using water as a lubricant/coolant .........its commonly used in rolling mills

 

[boslab]

Limis right, that’s bear brand tufnol, you have a treat in store if you haven’t machined tufnol, oh yes!
Don’t underestimate that stuff, I’ve seen it as bearings for rolling steel, prop shafts of destroyers, it definitely punches above its weight but it stinks when you machine it, smells like fish crossed with arse.
Many gears have been made, designed to protect the box usually.
Mark

 

[technocrat]

Limis right, that’s bear brand tufnol, you have a treat in store if you haven’t machined tufnol, oh yes!
Don’t underestimate that stuff, I’ve seen it as bearings for rolling steel, prop shafts of destroyers, it definitely punches above its weight but it stinks when you machine it, smells like fish crossed with arse.
Many gears have been made, designed to protect the box usually.
Mark

yep, the smell is unmistakable and you will have flashbacks every time you smell it again

 

[boslab]

I have some to cut up soon for guides on a saw thing, 4” square 1” thick, god it’s heavy, I think it’s like a 4’ x 1/2 steel weight ( but I’m weaker than I was at 30)
It’s got to be sawn into strip, there’s 6 blades for the saw gone, it eats carbide , slowly and the duller the blades get the worse the stink, I’m full face respirator these days, but you have to take it off sometime, then the stink, but without the dust up your snout like a coke head in mustard powder!
Mark

 

[Limy Sami]

If you can, machine it with coolant, it cuts down the dust, smell and improves tool life, ............ though be aware, some applications of Tufnol, preclude the use of coolant

 

[ThatGuysFarm]

I''m pretty sure it's not wood, or if it is, it SHOULD be resin bonded cloth known as ''Tufnol'' in the UK, ........ of which there are several varieties, and when making gears one must use the correct variety with the gears being cut from plate, rather than turned from bar or rod.

Do you think 3D scanning and making one out of plastic on a 3D printer would hold up? I'm looking for options, I have not got a reply from the company if they have parts available or not. Thanks

 

[ThatGuysFarm]

My 1969 Volvo 164 6-cylinder engine had the large timing gear made of phenolic resin with embedded cloth. I only know that because two of those gears lost teeth and left me stranded in the ten years I drove that car. My Emco Maximat V10 lathe had one gear in the power feed/threading train made of something that looked like Delrin. It failed soon after I got the lathe. I understand such non-metallic gears are often used because they cause less noise than a steel gear. They are considered "strong enough" until they fail.

I have a lot of the phenolic sheet with canvas, linen and glass reinforcement in my shop and find it useful for various things, but never made a gear out of it.

Larry

Interesting!

 

[technocrat]

Do you think 3D scanning and making one out of plastic on a 3D printer would hold up? I'm looking for options, I have not got a reply from the company if they have parts available or not. Thanks

Whilst usually ok on benchtop lathes, I think 3d print would be borderline on a lathe of that size. In 1952 good plastics were available but the manufacturer chose a more expensive resin bonded fiber option. I'd be going for full width of the metal gears if I printed it. Since it is straight cut, cad drawing into the slicing software would be ok and should print well. At that size, shrinkage may be an issue and you might have to print slightly oversize or use a extruder multiplier slightly over 1.