Ultrasonic Cleaners

[Machinerer]

Does anyone have recommendations for ultrasonic cleaners? We have been having issues with staining on some of our parts recently, and it seems to be, at least STARTING at the coolant remaining on parts, then gets compounded after anodize/plating/etc. The biggest part we'd be using it for is about 10.5" x 10.5" x 19". It doesn't have to be anything crazy, as we have a Vapor Degreaser that parts get cleaned in, after they go through deburring, but mostly just something to remove residual coolant and oils.

 

[F35Machinist]

I use Branson MC-3 in my ultrasonic. What are you using in your vapor degreaser that it isn't getting the oil off? I was under the impression that vapor degreasers were the gold standard aside from plasma cleaning. Are you using N-propyl Bromide or Perc?

 

[pcd]

I've got a Branson that's been trouble-free.

 

[Mtndew]

We bought one of these to handle some large parts, it's really nice.
https://ultrasonicllc.com/machines/ultra-3000#quoteform

We also have a smaller benchtop model from Crest that is really nice, but no temp setting, just turn on, wait for it to warm up and go.

 

[Machinerer]

I use Branson MC-3 in my ultrasonic. What are you using in your vapor degreaser that it isn't getting the oil off? I was under the impression that vapor degreasers were the gold standard aside from plasma cleaning. Are you using N-propyl Bromide or Perc?

I believe its the N-propyl, but that's not my area so I'm not totally sure. It definitely has an alcohol type smell. The issue, is cleaning the parts directly after machining. We have 3 buildings, so cleaning each part, after machining, in the Vapor degreaser isn't really practical. As of right now, they don't hit the vapor degreaser until after deburr, and at that point, they're already stained. The ultrasonic option is more of a way to have something for the operators to clean their parts in directly after machining. Right now they just spray with shop air, and isopropyl.

 

[F35Machinist]

I believe its the N-propyl, but that's not my area so I'm not totally sure. It definitely has an alcohol type smell. The issue, is cleaning the parts directly after machining. We have 3 buildings, so cleaning each part, after machining, in the Vapor degreaser isn't really practical. As of right now, they don't hit the vapor degreaser until after deburr, and at that point, they're already stained. The ultrasonic option is more of a way to have something for the operators to clean their parts in directly after machining. Right now they just spray with shop air, and isopropyl.

The staining may be a compatibility issue with your coolant and material, in which case immediately removing the coolant would be a good idea as you say. Even just dunking the parts immediately into soapy water may be enough to solve the problem. What is the material of the parts and what coolant are you using?

 

[Machinerer]

The staining may be a compatibility issue with your coolant and material, in which case immediately removing the coolant would be a good idea as you say. Even just dunking the parts immediately into soapy water may be enough to solve the problem. What is the material of the parts and what coolant are you using?

Most of the issues are happening on 6061, that later gets nickel plated. Coolant is Hocut 795. I've never been a fan of it, and it always feels very "greasy" to me. Concentration is kept around 8%

 

[EnginCycles]

Hocut 795? It needs one more letter after the numbers. If it is B I am really surprised it is staining the aluminum. If it is H I have no experience with it but it is designed for Honda and they work the crap out of it. Is the coolant using straight tap water or is it D.I. or something along those lines? I would contact Quaker and ask because that coolant is definitely not suppose to stain aluminum. It was one of the big reasons they have 795B because Boeing was demanding no staining of the material. I personally think this is the absolute best coolant on the planet. It never ever goes rancid and always remains emulsified. I have a sump that is going on 10 years old and still functioning from the original charge. I always use D.I. water.

 

[SeikiCorp]

Also,
Misuse of the ultrasonic can cause its own issues in soft materials.
Parts rubbing against each other and cavication of air bubbles can etch parts.

 

[Machinerer]

Hocut 795? It needs one more letter after the numbers. If it is B I am really surprised it is staining the aluminum. If it is H I have no experience with it but it is designed for Honda and they work the crap out of it. Is the coolant using straight tap water or is it D.I. or something along those lines? I would contact Quaker and ask because that coolant is definitely not suppose to stain aluminum. It was one of the big reasons they have 795B because Boeing was demanding no staining of the material. I personally think this is the absolute best coolant on the planet. It never ever goes rancid and always remains emulsified. I have a sump that is going on 10 years old and still functioning from the original charge. I always use D.I. water.

We don't use DI water. Just tap. Which, I understand can cause it's own issues, but, this coolant is supposed to be modified for hard water. I do believe it's 795B. My only complaint, is that it feels a bit greasy. It definitely smells much better than the Blaser we used to use.

 

[F35Machinist]

Hocut 795? It needs one more letter after the numbers. If it is B I am really surprised it is staining the aluminum. If it is H I have no experience with it but it is designed for Honda and they work the crap out of it. Is the coolant using straight tap water or is it D.I. or something along those lines? I would contact Quaker and ask because that coolant is definitely not suppose to stain aluminum. It was one of the big reasons they have 795B because Boeing was demanding no staining of the material. I personally think this is the absolute best coolant on the planet. It never ever goes rancid and always remains emulsified. I have a sump that is going on 10 years old and still functioning from the original charge. I always use D.I. water.

I agree. I use Hocut 795B and it is great. Works great with aluminum and I do a lot of e-less Ni plating as well. I've never had staining issues with 795B on aluminum. I don't even rinse the parts off and let the platers clean the parts prior to processing.

If OP is using Hocut 795B with 6061 aluminum and his parts are getting stained, then something else is afoot.

For the record, I always use tap water.

 

[Houdini]

I would say just using warm/hot water and simple green aircraft precision cleaner.

without filtered water, If you check your coolant, I think with the tap water, you'll find your issues.
test strips

 

[Machinerer]

I agree. I use Hocut 795B and it is great. Works great with aluminum and I do a lot of e-less Ni plating as well. I've never had staining issues with 795B on aluminum. I don't even rinse the parts off and let the platers clean the parts prior to processing.

If OP is using Hocut 795B with 6061 aluminum and his parts are getting stained, then something else is afoot.

For the record, I always use tap water.

Ok, so, we WERE using 795B, but we were having some issues with things gunking up, then switched to 7750(?). It was weird, the 795B was turning into a sludge, almost like white lithium grease.

I talked to the guy that provide our coolant, and I'm trying to get him to provide some DI water to prove that point to them.

 

[???]

You've got other issues, I've also got 795B in machines for year's without issues. I don't use DI water either.

 

[F35Machinist]

Ok, so, we WERE using 795B, but we were having some issues with things gunking up, then switched to 7750(?). It was weird, the 795B was turning into a sludge, almost like white lithium grease.

I talked to the guy that provide our coolant, and I'm trying to get him to provide some DI water to prove that point to them.

Years ago, I tried DI water with 795B for a couple of months just out of curiosity. I found that I was getting much more foaming when I used DI water. I've been using tap water ever since and there have been no foaming issues or any other issues. I've been very happy with Hocut 795B and it would take a lot to make me even consider anything else for the materials that I usually machine.

 

[Machinerer]

You've got other issues, I've also got 795B in machines for year's without issues. I don't use DI water either.

I'll try to get some pictures tomorrow of the sludge we were getting with the 795B. No idea what was causing it.

 

[Houdini]

That 795b is already a hard water modified coolant.

Possibility of incompatible fluid getting in the coolant?, cleaners, oils, etc.
Some fluids may be causing emulsifiers to breakdown, allowing separation.

Might look at way oil compatibility also.

 

[Machinerer]

That 795b is already a hard water modified coolant.

Possibility of incompatible fluid getting in the coolant?, cleaners, oils, etc.
Some fluids may be causing emulsifiers to breakdown, allowing separation.

Might look at way oil compatibility also.

I'll look into those things. Thanks. The main machines we had this issue with are 2 Yasda's and a Matsuura, all under 3 years old. But the way oil incompatibly is an interesting thought

 

[Houdini]

Also check this thread.
Is the coolant drum old?

Hocut 795B issues

Anyone else having issues with Hocut 795B? We've been running it for years now but, in the past year its really seems to have turned to crap. We started getting a brown waxy build up on everything and its not lasting like it used to. Our sales rep had someone from Houghton in and they took...

www.practicalmachinist.com

also check your water make sure it's compatible, not all 'tap water' is even slightly equal.

Have the sludge tested vs way oil/grease.

Thinking out loud.

 

[Machinerer]

Also check this thread.
Is the coolant drum old?

Hocut 795B issues

Anyone else having issues with Hocut 795B? We've been running it for years now but, in the past year its really seems to have turned to crap. We started getting a brown waxy build up on everything and its not lasting like it used to. Our sales rep had someone from Houghton in and they took...

www.practicalmachinist.com

also check your water make sure it's compatible, not all 'tap water' is even slightly equal.

Have the sludge tested vs way oil/grease.

Thinking out loud.

I don't believe our drums were old, as we go through them pretty quickly, but honestly, I'm not sure, as I was unaware that most of the machines have now been changed to 7750. Here is what that sludge looked like. Most of the machines have been PM'ed, so they've been cleaned and I can't find much of it anymore, but it was starting to cover everything, with what looked like a white lithium grease. The stuff in the picture is darker than normal, as it's old, and hidden in a crevice, but the stuff that caked up on the inside of the machine was much whiter.