1953 13EE Monarch FS...
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 42
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    58
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7
    Likes (Received)
    18

    Default 1953 13EE Monarch FS...

    Thinking of selling one of the two Mythical Beasts (lol) from our collection....

    1953 Monarch 13EE 15.5" x 54" toolroom lathe. 25 - 2000 RPM in 4 gear ranges, shifted electrically. Rapids in Z and X.

    Had a Ward-Leonard (Motor Generator) drive originally, but we swapped in a Baldor SCR Line-Regen drive instead. Original 20HP DC motor in place, and the modern Baldor 4-quadrant drive feels (and sounds) a lot like an 80's Monarch SCR Line-Regen drive. Gear shifting works with original switchgear.

    Ways have no wear, some very localized pitting. CSS not hooked up currently but would not be difficult to implement with the modern drive.

    $7500, have forklift to load.

    img_2401.jpg
    img_2402.jpg


    Have a great Thanksgiving !!

    Thanks,
    Alex.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails img_2398.jpg   img_2399.jpg   img_2400.jpg  

  2. Likes TheOldCar liked this post
  3. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    58
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7
    Likes (Received)
    18

    Default

    img_2403.jpg
    img_2404.jpg
    img_2405.jpg
    img_2406.jpg
    img_2408.jpg

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    58
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7
    Likes (Received)
    18

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    58
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7
    Likes (Received)
    18

    Default

    img_2417.jpg
    img_2418.jpg
    img_2419.jpg
    img_2420.jpg
    img_2425.jpg

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    58
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7
    Likes (Received)
    18

    Default

    img_2427.jpg
    img_2428.jpg
    img_2430.jpg
    img_2432.jpg

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Montco, PA
    Posts
    545
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    46
    Likes (Received)
    63

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 1000EE-Monarch View Post
    Thinking of selling one of the two Mythical Beasts (lol) from our collection....

    1953 Monarch 13EE 15.5" x 54" toolroom lathe. 25 - 2000 RPM in 4 gear ranges, shifted electrically. Rapids in Z and X.

    Had a Ward-Leonard (Motor Generator) drive originally, but we swapped in a Baldor SCR Line-Regen drive instead. Original 20HP DC motor in place, and the modern Baldor 4-quadrant drive feels (and sounds) a lot like an 80's Monarch SCR Line-Regen drive. Gear shifting works with original switchgear.

    Ways have no wear, some very localized pitting. CSS not hooked up currently but would not be difficult to implement with the modern drive.

    $7500, have forklift to load.

    img_2401.jpg
    img_2402.jpg


    Have a great Thanksgiving !!

    Thanks,
    Alex.
    How does the new drive work? Is the auto brake still working?

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    58
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7
    Likes (Received)
    18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by G-Auto View Post
    How does the new drive work? Is the auto brake still working?
    The new drive is a 4-Quardant SCR Line-regen drive. Decelerating is done by returning power into the grid. The 13EE has a shunt wound motor, and reversing rotation direction of the motor only needs the reversal of the armature voltage. When decelerating (torque reversal), voltage is the "normal way" but current is "reversed" and pushed back into the utility grid though the SCR drive. When running in reverse rotation direction, the voltage to the armature is reversed.

    Kinda like this but using SCRs:
    Four Quadrant Operation | Kollmorgen

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Utah
    Posts
    926
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1984
    Likes (Received)
    359

    Default

    Did you see the 1000EE on Craigslist?
    I believe it is in Eugene Oregon?

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Utah
    Posts
    926
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1984
    Likes (Received)
    359

    Default

    Honest, embarrassing question:
    How intimidating is one of these?
    I’ve always considered them to be the pinnacle of Monarch. I also imagine them to be far more difficult/intimidating to refurbish than the 10EE and Series 60 that I have made useable.

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    58
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7
    Likes (Received)
    18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOldCar View Post
    Did you see the 1000EE on Craigslist?
    I believe it is in Eugene Oregon?
    Yep, I did... And sending him an E-mail did not result in a reply. No phone number in the ad...

    Are we all in agreement that 13EE is MG and 1000EE is a Tube machine? And MG is early 50's and tube late 50's? I'm still trying to figure it out after 20 years of obsessive collecting and having had three of these things....

    But yeah, the OR machine is MG and a 13EE.

  12. Likes TheOldCar liked this post
  13. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    27,282
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    8507

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOldCar View Post
    Honest, embarrassing question:
    How intimidating is one of these?
    I’ve always considered them to be the pinnacle of Monarch. I also imagine them to be far more difficult/intimidating to refurbish than the 10EE and Series 60 that I have made useable.
    Depends. Any "museum grade" restoration to "as built" is not much more expensive for any one size of a Ward-Leonard MG system than any other size. Bigger ration of iron. Bigger ration of Copper. Bigger physical size. Bigger Bearings. Bigger brushes. Big F*****g Deal. Technology is straight forward, well understood, and "scales well". Any refurb can last a VERY long time.

    Hollow-state, three-phase, not single-phase? Not so cheap.
    Not rocket insemination, either, but TUBES could get sore expensive.

    OTOH, if all yah need it for is actual WORK?

    Modern 3-Phase (only) DC Drives are less work by far to retrofit than Single-Phase DC Drives and there are far more still-active makers. Also much smoother. Very much smoother.

    Not just "6-pulse" advantage over "2-pulse" Some of the clever buggers simulate 24 pulse, and nearly all have Field Regulation capability as well as tacho inputs - even resolver/pulsetrain feedback.

    They are not even terribly expensive.

    Tubes, OTOH?

    Addictive, those can be.

    As a kid, a neighbour gifted me with a deadern' yesterday's news 1938 Sparks-Withington console radio that had about 18 tubes in it. Bought me a Howard Sams schematic and fixed 'er right up, good as new.

    Audio out was by a pair of pint milk-bottle sized "2A3" triodes, classical "Class A push-pull" circuit. And the buggers were going "gassy" with long-service.

    I often turned that Old Gentleman face to the wall so I could enjoy music whilst staring into the BACK of it, watching the intense purple glow of those old four-pin 2A3 bounce in time to the bass section, night-time "clear-channel" AM radio, "Hot Jazz, Saturday Night" New Orleans ...to Pittsburgh.

    Person with a tube-drive Monarch has to keep the covers shut or risk hypnotism, yah?



    Still .. beats all Hell outta being vampirized by a demon-infected Plymouth Fury ugly as sin and twice as cheap-looking as a dead fish with similar tail-fins. "Christine" was her name?

    Ain't NO accounting for the lack of TASTE in Demons, that era. Had a lick of self-respect, they'd ha' made a Pierce-Arrow or a Duesenberg immortal instead.

    Or at least a Buick-Marmon-Wright Cylcone M18 Hellcat crossbreed?



    10EE lucked-out.

    Got more Angels livin' in 'em than demons.

    Buckeye builders must ha' been livin' cleaner than MOPAR's "PLYAL" parts-bins?

  14. Likes TheOldCar liked this post
  15. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Utah
    Posts
    926
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1984
    Likes (Received)
    359

    Default

    Definitely wouldn't want to restore it, just refurbish what is needed & use it. Refurbishing the Series 60 took me over two years, and that was with a complete parts lathe. The 10EE took a bit less time, being in better shape. Of course took plenty of bearings, seals, metering units, stripping, machining, etc., not to mention a lifesaving gear still available from Monarch.

    I would imagine that for this lathe, parts are FAR more difficult to find, and I fear trying to supply enough 3 phase power. I have only a 100A panel at the shop, with my cobbled RPC running on a 50A breaker.

  16. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    27,282
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    8507

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOldCar View Post
    Definitely wouldn't want to restore it, just refurbish what is needed & use it. Refurbishing the Series 60 took me over two years, and that was with a complete parts lathe. The 10EE took a bit less time, being in better shape. Of course took plenty of bearings, seals, metering units, stripping, machining, etc., not to mention a lifesaving gear still available from Monarch.

    I would imagine that for this lathe, parts are FAR more difficult to find, and I fear trying to supply enough 3 phase power. I have only a 100A panel at the shop, with my cobbled RPC running on a 50A breaker.
    Don't "imagine" if you are interested. Call Monarch and ASK. They already know the answer(s) as to what they have to make and what they still know where to just purchase.


    Even when.. they have to make from prints.. or HAVE made.. they are competetive. Think otherwise, just send an RPQ to any OTHER shop, present-day prices as they are and Monarch already knowing what any other shop has to try to find out, from a cold start. All alone. And in the dark.

    On the power? I wouldn't call any MG "wasteful". Not exactly, anyway. Yah DO get "rotating power" DC. About as smooth as it gets affordably.

    Even so, I'd have to run my 10 HP RPC, and then the Ward-Leonard system has a lot of running loss plus conversion loss. The final-drive motor won't ever get above 73% conversion efficiency at best. Nature of a Type T to sacrifice efficiency for superb smoothness, wide speed range.

    By comparison, motor stays the same, but an idle Parker-SSD draws under 500 milli-amps, and "wastes" but 55 WATTS conversion loss at full-rated 6 HP gallop. Call it around 15 to 20 Watts of waste, typical running, motor taking up another 1 to 2 HP, typical load seldom being even close to maxed-out?

    Got me 200A service, but a 10EE is my least-hungry "real" machine-tool, leaving-off the ancient Walker-Turner or the Kasto PHS.

    "Real" enough at honest work, both are, but neither is watcha might class as a "real machine tool".

  17. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Michigan
    Posts
    61
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    19
    Likes (Received)
    15

    Default

    If this lathe was not 2700 miles away, I'd be all over it..
    I see so many 10ee's with 'fantasy' pricing. and this one is reasonable, in good condition, and ready to go.

    Too many miles.. even if I had floor space for it..

    DualValve.

    They tend to multiply:

  18. Likes TheOldCar liked this post
  19. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    27,282
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    8507

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DualValve View Post
    They tend to multiply:
    Well. Yah. Sorta.

    Why d'you think the Wizards of Sidney graced a 10EE with such a curvaceous bod?

    My two must have been bored to tears or off on a a European Holiday to get up to the deviltry of birthing an obviously French HBX-360-BC.

    Mind.. with Milacron playing "matchmaker"? It could as easily been a Schaublin, had I more coin lying idle.



    A 10EE can even go on for multiple human generations masquerading as "kept wimmin'" even though THEY are the ones keeping humans as serfs!

    You'd have to know dynastic succession amongst Monarchies?

  20. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    58
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7
    Likes (Received)
    18

    Default

    >> Honest, embarrassing question: How intimidating is one of these?
    >> I’ve always considered them to be the pinnacle of Monarch. I also imagine them to be far more difficult/intimidating to refurbish
    >> than the 10EE and Series 60 that I have made useable.

    Well, depends on how extensive of a refurbishment you have in mind. You could use it as it sits (it does run, shift gears, rapids work, etc.). It's pretty clean and all the important stuff works. And fix stuff up a bit at a time. Removing the motor generator and going to a modern drive did simplify the electricals quite a bit. Yes, a full restoration would be like a Series 60 except a bit more to do.

    >> Modern 3-Phase (only) DC Drives are less work by far to retrofit than Single-Phase DC Drives and there are far more still-active makers. Also much smoother

    This has a 3-phase only drive. The drive will run on 480 or 240V input.

    >> would imagine that for this lathe, parts are FAR more difficult to find, and I fear trying to supply enough 3 phase power.
    >> I have only a 100A panel at the shop, with my cobbled RPC running on a 50A breaker.

    A 15 or 20HP rotary phase converter should do the trick...

    >> If this lathe was not 2700 miles away, I'd be all over it..
    >> I see so many 10ee's with 'fantasy' pricing. and this one is reasonable, in good condition, and ready to go.

    I could research shipping quotes... Thanks for the kind words re. pricing, I thought $7500 is fair for what it is... I hate seeing it go, but have way too many toys at the moment.... a pair of 13/1000EE's on top of all the 10EE's is a bit much :-). I might put up for sale some SIP MP-3K's as well...

  21. Likes TheOldCar liked this post
  22. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Washington
    Posts
    244
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    60

    Default

    Alex — are you selling both your 13EE’s or just one? Because it would be a shame for you to sell both of your 13EE. They are the pride of your collection!!

  23. Likes 1000EE-Monarch liked this post
  24. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    27,282
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    8507

    Default

    >> (Thermite said..) Modern 3-Phase (only) DC Drives are less work by far to retrofit than Single-Phase DC Drives and there are far more still-active makers. Also much smoother
    You responded:
    Quote Originally Posted by 1000EE-Monarch View Post
    This has a 3-phase only drive. The drive will run on 480 or 240V input.

    <snip>

    A 15 or 20HP rotary phase converter should do the trick...
    THIS.. has been "question enough" it is actually on my RTWL ('Round Tuit Wish List) to TEST.

    3 HP large-frame load-motors good enough.

    I have:

    - 10 KW Diesel of utility-mains grade balanced 3-Phase or "rotating" power

    - New "white Case" 10 HP Phase-Perfect

    - Phase-Craft controlled new-idler 10 HP RPC.

    My concern, given the manner in which Thyristor/SCR class DC Drives not only switch, but also monitor themselves and their loads, is whether, and to what extent, (if-even) the "generated" leg off an RPC degrades their performance, stability, or capability to regulate well vs all three legs of the same quality. Or near-as-dammit, the Phase-Perfect.

    Have you BEEN running a 3-Phase-only DC Drive off an RPC already? And if so, am I being overly pessimistic?

    Thanks..

    That "RTWL" is longer already than I have confidence of ever.. getting a 'round tuit. And purchasing the 3-P only DC Drive. Just for testing. But that part ain't new.


  25. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    58
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7
    Likes (Received)
    18

    Default

    >> Alex — are you selling both your 13EE’s or just one?

    Just this one. The other one is a little newer, has the tube drive, but is dirtier/more beat up/needs more work to run. I'm thinking of doing a complete restoration on that one someday.

  26. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    58
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7
    Likes (Received)
    18

    Default

    >> THIS.. has been "question enough" it is actually on my RTWL ('Round Tuit Wish List) to TEST.
    ....
    >> My concern, given the manner in which DC Drive not only switch, but also monitor themselves, is whether, and to what extent,
    >> if-even the "generated" leg off an RPC degrades their performance, stability, or capability to regulate well vs all three legs
    >> of the same quality. Or near-as-dammit, the Phase-Perfect.

    Good question and valid concern. If running the SCR drive off a rotary phase converter, I would connect the incoming 1 phase to the legs that power the logic of the drive, to keep the power going there more consistent. Also, probably a good idea to tune the accel and decel rates conservatively to limit peak loading. On decel, the energy is returned back to the grid (phase converter in this case), so the generated leg voltage would go up and the phase converter motor would try to speed up, limited by the 60hz mains which it would be backfeeding. I have yet to try it.... On the bright side, the drive we put in this lathe is extremely oversized, it's rated at 50hp and 500V or so (have to double check), and SCR drives are pretty tough.

    >> Have you BEEN running a 3-Phase-only DC Drive off an RPC already? And if so, am I being overly pessimistic?

    I have not, been using "real" three phase. I could scare up an idler motor and simulate operation off a phase converter if there's enough interest... I know a guy that's running a large Mori Seiki CNC lathe with an SCR DC drive off a phase converter and so far it's been OK. But yeah, if the intent is to run it off single phase with a RPC, probably a good idea to test drive it on that kind of setup see how she does.


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •