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FS Beautiful Van Norman Hand Mill
- Thread starter Canyonman
- Start date
- Replies 19
- Views 2,495
Forego your sarcasm oh great god of the forum. Anything older than I would fall into the antique era. As for your weariness, I was going to post into the classifieds also. The more "spread the word" the more chance the newbies can get somrething nice we codgers haven't hoarded. So I would request you leave them the #### alone. And while you do provide a fine forum and I admire your outlay to provide new server capabilities, your attitude really sux, if you were not the forum god I'm sure you would have been asked to leave long ago. Ken
Ken, if everyone "spread the word" to hawk their wares in the General forum, it would be mucked up constantly with for sale items and quite annoying to the readers of the forum. That's the whole point of having a seperate Classified forum. If you think you're special and somehow above all that, that's a problem.
As to sarcasm, I see nothing sarcastic about what I said about your mill...it's not an antique, just an old mill.
As to being the Forum God, well I'm not just the moderator, but the owner. If not for me the forum wouldn't exist in the first place for you to complain about your FREE classifieds going into the FREE forum which I spend time and loose money on every day.
As to sarcasm, I see nothing sarcastic about what I said about your mill...it's not an antique, just an old mill.
As to being the Forum God, well I'm not just the moderator, but the owner. If not for me the forum wouldn't exist in the first place for you to complain about your FREE classifieds going into the FREE forum which I spend time and loose money on every day.
ed thomas
Aluminum
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2004
- Location
- Bergton VA USA
Yep, makes me want to rush right out and buy something from this man. Not smart to snarl at the hand... 
DT, While I truly DO NOT want to turn this into any kind of pissin contest, apparently as Owner you do not keep as close a tabs on things as you think you might. Let us clear a few things up.
1. I am not "Hawking any wares", I have no connection with the seller at all other than to "spread the word" and find good homes for quality machines at reasonable prices. I have also provided my time, money, and effort to assist this old machinist ship some of this stuff out to deserving noobies.
2. My post topics are short and to the point and subject to the same controls as the remote to your TV. If the topic doesn't appeal; pass by. I hardly think this mucks anything up. I am no more special than yourself but the only one annoyed seems to be you. Maybe therin lies the problem.
3. The sarcasm comment is generally gleaned from your responses to all who post items, or questions, or by the sheer fact of noobie-ism, re-hash an old subject; and again this annoys you. You will note quite a few folks simply re- track thru the subject again, sometimes generating new points of discussion. Which , I thought, was the purpose of a forum. I was warned of this tendancy thru private mail and other groups but I guess I had to see for myself. So unless you wish to establish an age requirement to be addressed as antique, it is still in the "eye of the beholder"
4. As for owning the forum for me to "complain", again your attitude clouds your judgement. I am far to old to be addressed as some child " stop putting your other ads in the General forum as I'm getting weary of moving them" No-one asked you to extend yourself. I also praised your commitment to provide a fine forum and my admiration at your outlay of cash and time expended, all this fell on deaf ears.
I mean those words of praise and you will hear no more of this incident from me. I look forward to exchanging information in the future.
Respectfully Yours;
Ken R, MSgt USAF (Ret)
1. I am not "Hawking any wares", I have no connection with the seller at all other than to "spread the word" and find good homes for quality machines at reasonable prices. I have also provided my time, money, and effort to assist this old machinist ship some of this stuff out to deserving noobies.
2. My post topics are short and to the point and subject to the same controls as the remote to your TV. If the topic doesn't appeal; pass by. I hardly think this mucks anything up. I am no more special than yourself but the only one annoyed seems to be you. Maybe therin lies the problem.
3. The sarcasm comment is generally gleaned from your responses to all who post items, or questions, or by the sheer fact of noobie-ism, re-hash an old subject; and again this annoys you. You will note quite a few folks simply re- track thru the subject again, sometimes generating new points of discussion. Which , I thought, was the purpose of a forum. I was warned of this tendancy thru private mail and other groups but I guess I had to see for myself. So unless you wish to establish an age requirement to be addressed as antique, it is still in the "eye of the beholder"
4. As for owning the forum for me to "complain", again your attitude clouds your judgement. I am far to old to be addressed as some child " stop putting your other ads in the General forum as I'm getting weary of moving them" No-one asked you to extend yourself. I also praised your commitment to provide a fine forum and my admiration at your outlay of cash and time expended, all this fell on deaf ears.
I mean those words of praise and you will hear no more of this incident from me. I look forward to exchanging information in the future.
Respectfully Yours;
Ken R, MSgt USAF (Ret)
CBlair
Diamond
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2002
- Location
- Lawrenceville GA USA
With those handles it looks like a hand operated table used on production line machinery. I wouldnt think that a home user would find it very useful. Of course as a secondary machine set up for a single operation it does look to be in nice shape if the price is right.
Should be listed in classified area though, thanks for listing.
Charles
Should be listed in classified area though, thanks for listing.
Charles
jim rozen
Diamond
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2004
- Location
- peekskill, NY
I did not see any sarcasm in his reply; mine
would have been to simply delete the post out
of hand.
There's a place for ads, it's in a different
section.
Jim
would have been to simply delete the post out
of hand.
There's a place for ads, it's in a different
section.
Jim
Frederick Harvie
Stainless
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2004
- Location
- Halifax Nova Scotia
I agree with the others there is a place for free classifieds and the antique section is not it. The comparison with a TV remote just does not make the cut . I have no interest in reading throught a bunch of irelivant topics to get to something of interest and relavent to the section I am reading.
Dave A
Titanium
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2005
- Location
- Roseville, CA
Just so I will know and to keep from accidently aggravating the moderator in the future, what is the general date accepted as classifying a machine as an antique?
Also, should any machine for sale by myself, or someone else, even on Ebay, be listed/mentioned in the classified forum?
For instance, I mentioned I was looking at a Milwaukee 2HL horizontal mill a few days back. I did not tell anyone where it was, because I just wanted information about it from the group. It probably was not an antique, so I guess asked my question in the wrong forum?
Also, should any machine for sale by myself, or someone else, even on Ebay, be listed/mentioned in the classified forum?
For instance, I mentioned I was looking at a Milwaukee 2HL horizontal mill a few days back. I did not tell anyone where it was, because I just wanted information about it from the group. It probably was not an antique, so I guess asked my question in the wrong forum?
Re my ad in the Schaublin forum, I'm ok with placing ads that are *obviously* of *specific* interest to the visitors of specific forums.
It would be fine with me, for instance to advertise a truly antique machine here in this forum. Kens friend's Van Norman simply doesn't fit in the antique category, just an old production mill.
This is however not a "hard and fast" rule...notice that even here, and even after his insults, I've left it in.
Notice I left his Monarch EE tracer attachment ad in the Monarch forum as well. In fact that one I'm absolutely fine with, as it is specific to the folks that visit that forum.
Bottom line- No absolute rules, but when gray area's occur someone has to make a judgement call to keep the forums in line. And the moderator of a forum, be it me or someone else, makes the call.
It would be fine with me, for instance to advertise a truly antique machine here in this forum. Kens friend's Van Norman simply doesn't fit in the antique category, just an old production mill.
This is however not a "hard and fast" rule...notice that even here, and even after his insults, I've left it in.
Notice I left his Monarch EE tracer attachment ad in the Monarch forum as well. In fact that one I'm absolutely fine with, as it is specific to the folks that visit that forum.
Bottom line- No absolute rules, but when gray area's occur someone has to make a judgement call to keep the forums in line. And the moderator of a forum, be it me or someone else, makes the call.
reggie_obe
Diamond
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2004
- Location
- Reddington, N.J., U.S.A.
Well what does constitute an antique piece of machinery or an antique tool? Something made prior to 1900? I would really like to know as I have an "antique" or perhaps "old" Van Norman mill. It is a 1944 model #12. I also have a 1972 Toyota Landcruiser FJ-40, which the state of NJ considers an antique auto. So perhaps a static post in this column explaing what is and isn't antique would help everyone out.
rivett608
Diamond
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2002
- Location
- Kansas City, Mo.
Maybe for our purposes here Antique machines are those with flat belts.........?
Dave A
Titanium
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2005
- Location
- Roseville, CA
Yes, originally mfg for flat belts would be one reasonable criteria for an antique machine. Is this the defining change in machine tools that separates old from modern?. Is the change from plain bearings to ball or roller bearings about the same period of time?
When I originally asked the question, I had in mind a date, possibly 1920 or even 1930, but I think that might be too modern in design on most machines?
When I originally asked the question, I had in mind a date, possibly 1920 or even 1930, but I think that might be too modern in design on most machines?
doc
Hot Rolled
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2001
- Location
- alvaton,ky
dont sell the hand mill short for a home shop ....mine is a stout little beast....added jackshaft & xtra mtr pulleys gives 12 speeds down to 60 rpm ...has screw feeds on knee ,head & x feed,...recently cut more than a few 14 pitch gears one pass per tooth,just fine ..sure puts the M head to shame for ridgidity....a longitudinal feed screw attached to stop dovetail in table front is in progress..( fly cutting is hazardous w/ lever feed) & inadvertantly climbcutting is a catastrophe w/ a rack feed...once is enuf..) other than above ,no complaints in 30 yrs....
best wishes
docn8as
best wishes
docn8as
doc
Hot Rolled
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2001
- Location
- alvaton,ky
hand mill spindle runs in massive tapered bronze bush & 1 1/4 in. c/shaft runs in cast iron ...after all this time ,85 yrs ?????, only .005+ slop in c/shaft bearings .......maybe antique?..probably not , but CLOSE
best wishes
docn8as
best wishes
docn8as
JimK
Diamond
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2003
- Location
- Berkeley Springs, WV, USA
Maybe the idea of antique has to be adjusted.
Time keeps going forward. Someone with a Haas or a Mazak would say that machine was definitely in the antique category.
Somene with a flat belt driven job would say that V/N was modern.
Those who worked at V/N in the 1960's might refer to it as antique also because the machine was discontinued maybe ten years earlier.
If you are thirty years old and working in the trade, there is a very good chance that you have never seen a brand new production milling machine of any kind. Same holds true for the hydraulic tracer lathes and mills and tape reading NC machines.
It's ALL antique to you.
Time keeps going forward. Someone with a Haas or a Mazak would say that machine was definitely in the antique category.
Somene with a flat belt driven job would say that V/N was modern.
Those who worked at V/N in the 1960's might refer to it as antique also because the machine was discontinued maybe ten years earlier.
If you are thirty years old and working in the trade, there is a very good chance that you have never seen a brand new production milling machine of any kind. Same holds true for the hydraulic tracer lathes and mills and tape reading NC machines.
It's ALL antique to you.
SouthBendModel34
Diamond
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2004
- Location
- Metuchen, NJ, USA
How old does a machine have to be to be an antique? We can all have an opinion on this, and all the opinions will have some validity!
I'd rather arbitrarily place it at 1945. Anything with a War Production Board tag, or anything earlier. In other words, 60 years. I make this opinion based mostly on historical significance of WWII and the production effort that it entailed.
OTOH, I would not want anyone to shy away from discussing an "interesting" old machine in this forum just because it is postwar.
Maybe the real answer is that if the machine is "obsolete", it's a curiosity.
BTW: Speaking of handmills, I have a Barker hand mill, model PTO. Barker, at one time, offered a screw feed with dials on at least some of the axes. I can see Acme-threaded holes in some of the castings, and it is getting me curious as to whether it is possible to convert a hand mill into something less production-oriented. If anybody's done this, start a thread, please!
John Ruth
I'd rather arbitrarily place it at 1945. Anything with a War Production Board tag, or anything earlier. In other words, 60 years. I make this opinion based mostly on historical significance of WWII and the production effort that it entailed.
OTOH, I would not want anyone to shy away from discussing an "interesting" old machine in this forum just because it is postwar.
Maybe the real answer is that if the machine is "obsolete", it's a curiosity.
BTW: Speaking of handmills, I have a Barker hand mill, model PTO. Barker, at one time, offered a screw feed with dials on at least some of the axes. I can see Acme-threaded holes in some of the castings, and it is getting me curious as to whether it is possible to convert a hand mill into something less production-oriented. If anybody's done this, start a thread, please!
John Ruth
Hi John,
I was wondering when anyone would get around to the Barkers. A friend of mine allowed me the use of his Barker PM, Modified a bit, for 2-3 yrs till I purchased a mill of my own. Neat little machine! Actually that was exactly what I was thinking when I took the pics, a Barker on Steroids!!! Little did I know such controversy would arise! BTW Many thanks to "BarkerLurker" for the loan and sharing his valuable knowledge.
To all you good folks E-mailing, once again, I have no idea what Charlie wants for some of the stuff, if he mentions it in passing, I try to note it and pass it on. Quite a few people, including a few on this forum have been treated fairly (or better) by Charlie. You have to call and ask him. If I can assist with pics, or help get it shipped or something, let me know.
Please feel free to drop me a line and let me know your results, or if you are going to make a road trip I would love to meet ya! Burgers on me!!
Now at the risk of incurring further ire, I'll sign off. Let The Chips Fly!!!! Ken
I was wondering when anyone would get around to the Barkers. A friend of mine allowed me the use of his Barker PM, Modified a bit, for 2-3 yrs till I purchased a mill of my own. Neat little machine! Actually that was exactly what I was thinking when I took the pics, a Barker on Steroids!!! Little did I know such controversy would arise! BTW Many thanks to "BarkerLurker" for the loan and sharing his valuable knowledge.
To all you good folks E-mailing, once again, I have no idea what Charlie wants for some of the stuff, if he mentions it in passing, I try to note it and pass it on. Quite a few people, including a few on this forum have been treated fairly (or better) by Charlie. You have to call and ask him. If I can assist with pics, or help get it shipped or something, let me know.
Please feel free to drop me a line and let me know your results, or if you are going to make a road trip I would love to meet ya! Burgers on me!!
Now at the risk of incurring further ire, I'll sign off. Let The Chips Fly!!!! Ken
