Industrial hydraulic cylinder options

[Overland]

A customer has asked me to upgrade a machine he uses to strip off broken pallet boards, then squeeze in the nails, so new boards can be attached.
The machine currently uses 2" bore Parker "2H" style cylinders, with a 4" stroke from memory.
Customer wants to replace with 2-1/2" bore to get better nail squeezing.
My local hydraulics shop said their cost for the same Parker cylinders at 2-1/2" bore is $1,700 each, plus shipping. When asked they couldn't offer an alternative "industrial cylinder". The machine takes 4 cylinders.
I found some USA made 3,000 psi Peninsular brand cylinders at Automation Direct for less than half the price. The specs seem good with induction hardened chrome rods, ductile iron rod bearings, teflon and Buna-n Nitrile seals.
Does anyone have any experience with these Peninsular cylinders ?
Are there any other good options anyone could recommend please ?
Thanks,
Bob

 

[Ralph_P]

Try Bailey Hydraulics

 

[Overland]

Try Bailey Hydraulics

Bailey tends to be "consumer grade", I believe.
Bob

 

[ratbldr427]

One thing you can count on is Parker is among the most expensive hydraulics out there and another is they are among the best. However know what you actually need for your application. Never seen a machine like that ; second best may be a good option if price is a problem. OTOH repairing pallets for a living has to be hi volume low pay so whoever built the machine wasn't concerned about price , more about durability.

We have used a lot of Automation Direct products and they have good stuff at good prices. I think I've seen some of their hydraulic cylinders come through here but was not one of my projects.

As far as cylinders go the cheapest cylinders that many mfg's make are called agricultural tie rod cylinders. They are usually 1/3 rd or more less than Parker or equivalent. There plenty of mfg's out there and for what your customer is doing if you can find the correct size they may be fine. Prince is one and CRC hydraulics can sell you every thing to build your own.

 

[Overland]

Thanks Rat.
You seem to understand the issues in this business.
I have a short video, 9 seconds, 17 MB Id like to post here, but don't see how.
But I have seen videos posted here before.
Bob

 

[hvnlymachining]

Surplus center often has high end surplus cylinders for a tiny fraction of new if your customer is price point sensitive. If downtime is more his concern then you'll need to get specs before purchasing since even many high end brands don't add things like wear bands or "bearings" to the gland or piston. In the Atlas and Parker cylinders I often rebuild for industrial customers, the entire gland is bronze to prevent wear in the event of side load on the rod.

 

[Overland]

Surplus center often has high end surplus cylinders for a tiny fraction of new if your customer is price point sensitive. If downtime is more his concern then you'll need to get specs before purchasing since even many high end brands don't add things like wear bands or "bearings" to the gland or piston. In the Atlas and Parker cylinders I often rebuild for industrial customers, the entire gland is bronze to prevent wear in the event of side load on the rod.

Thanks for comments.
This is a rebuild of a spare machine, so I have some time; and I'll take my time as I'm semi-retired !!
I'll check Surplus, thanks. A longer cylinder is fine as I can cut it down. But would like compatible trunions etc, to save time.
Attached is a pic of the of slides he wants on the spare machine. I need to cut old roller slides off spare machine and build new slides and increase cylinders from 2" to 2.5" bore.
I'm thinking I can get slide parts from an old forklift mast, perhaps.
Bob

 

[Overland]

Here's a link to the machine (new). My customer is operating more than twice the speed of this video !!
The machine in the video shows the roller slides. Customer has not had any luck with these, and wants solid slides like the pic I posted.
Bob

Deckmaster™ Lead-Board Remover & Nail Depressor | Automated Machine Systems

Deckmaster™ Lead-Board Remover & Nail Depressor The DeckMaster is a heavy duty lead board remover capable of hydraulically removing deck boards and depressing nail stubble. This highly productive machine places the quality making decisions, regarding which damaged deck boards need to be removed...

automatedmachinesystems.com

 

[ratbldr427]

One of our former employees had a pallet repairing side business for many years. I don't think he had any machines however since he was getting the pallets free he made some pretty good side money.
We have to keep all our wooden pallets under lock since there are always theives who brazingly pull into our shipping area outside storage area and try to load up on them new or used.
Internally we have to use all plastic pallets.
I wonder , just looking at the machines if your customer is running enough pressure. Normally something like that would run 1800-2000 psi. I would think a pair of 2" cyls would be more than enough ? Looks can be deceiving sometimes.

 

[hvnlymachining]

Those Parker cylinders are nearly identical to one of the common rebuilds I do for an industrial customer. The glands are bronze on those (visible on the right cylinder) and most likely necessary on that machine by the looks of it.

 

[john.k]

The Chep Detectives used to beat a path to the pallet yard in back of my shop .....even back in the day ,40 years ago,a hardwood pallet was $60 ,so you can see that thieves who used to steal semi loads were doing alright.

 

[Overland]

One of our former employees had a pallet repairing side business for many years. I don't think he had any machines however since he was getting the pallets free he made some pretty good side money.
We have to keep all our wooden pallets under lock since there are always theives who brazingly pull into our shipping area outside storage area and try to load up on them new or used.
Internally we have to use all plastic pallets.
I wonder , just looking at the machines if your customer is running enough pressure. Normally something like that would run 1800-2000 psi. I would think a pair of 2" cyls would be more than enough ? Looks can be deceiving sometimes.

Hey Rat,
We were thinking the same after seeing the new machine video. We'll check pressure on his 2nd machine with 2" cylinders and see if we can wind it up to max (3,000 I believe). That'll tell us if we need to upgrade the cylinders or not.
Thanks,
Bob

 

[Overland]

Those Parker cylinders are nearly identical to one of the common rebuilds I do for an industrial customer. The glands are bronze on those (visible on the right cylinder) and most likely necessary on that machine by the looks of it.

Just rebuilding shouldn't cost too much, and maybe just fine.
Thanks,
Bob

 

[just Dave]

Enerpac and spx are hi duty , very adaptable and you will be able to get parts. They are not the cheap but highest commercial quality I feel.

 

[Overland]

The Chep Detectives used to beat a path to the pallet yard in back of my shop .....even back in the day ,40 years ago,a hardwood pallet was $60 ,so you can see that thieves who used to steal semi loads were doing alright.

There's a couple of blue pallets in my customers yard.........
He has an automatic machine that builds over 500 new pallets a day, and he repairs almost a thousand pallets a day, if I remember correctly.
It's nowhere need $60 a pallet, unless your thinking Australian dollars at a very poor exchange rate, lol.
Bob

 

[john.k]

$60 was Cheps replacement charge for a new hardwood pallet.........the price of hardwood now,I doubt you could make one for that....I had hundreds of the army size pallets eaten by termites in my old yard........I used to get saleable ones in standard size from the phone co............I note the pallets in the machine vid are no where near as heavy as the old Oz hardwood pallets

 

[just Dave]

There's a couple of blue pallets in my customers yard.........
He has an automatic machine that builds over 500 new pallets a day, and he repairs almost a thousand pallets a day, if I remember correctly.
It's nowhere need $60 a pallet, unless your thinking Australian dollars at a very poor exchange rate, lol.
Bob

You might also want to consider speed. If you run a smaller diameter cylinder that can handle higher psi you will get fast action and still more power than you had. The Enerpac and SPX are suited for 10,000 PSI. On my log splitter I use a home made cylinder And a 5,000 PSI piston pump. My ID is only 3 inch so it moves faster than most and yet has 35,000 pounds of force. My rod is 2” for strength but the large size also makes the retract stroke very fast. Making cylinders is easy to do if you pay attention to the critical aspects; it is just as easy to make poor performers, so do your research if you choose to make your own. Good luck with the build.
Dave

 

[Overland]

You might also want to consider speed. If you run a smaller diameter cylinder that can handle higher psi you will get fast action and still more power than you had. The Enerpac and SPX are suited for 10,000 PSI. On my log splitter I use a home made cylinder And a 5,000 PSI piston pump. My ID is only 3 inch so it moves faster than most and yet has 35,000 pounds of force. My rod is 2” for strength but the large size also makes the retract stroke very fast. Making cylinders is easy to do if you pay attention to the critical aspects; it is just as easy to make poor performers, so do your research if you choose to make your own. Good luck with the build.
Dave

Thanks Dave for following up.
The customer has 3 of these machines,
#1 in use with 2-1/2" cylinders that works well
#2 in use with 2" cylinders where he's not happy with squeeze force
#3 with me for rebuild.
The cylinders are rated for 3,000 psi; but we don't know what at pressure #2 is being run. So first step is to check pressure on #2, and maybe turn it up if we can. Also check pressure on #1.
Once we have this info we can make better decisions.
We want to use existing hydraulic power packs.
I'll post what we find out.
Thanks,
Bob

 

[BobM3]

Years ago Milwaukee Cylinder made hydraulic cylinders that were pretty good. Looks like they are still in business.

 

[ratbldr427]

Bear in mind that the higher pressures you run the more heat you generate. So rule of thumb don't run more than you need. On a low duty cycle not much of a problem but on a high cycle can cause problems especialy if your system doesn't have an aux cooler( which are easy to make or add) 140deg F or so is hot enough to cook off moisture. Most low duty just use the tank as a heat sink.