Thread milling Gr5 Titanium

[Mtndew]

For you guys that cut Grade 5 titanium a lot, what tool do you recommend for thread milling 3/8 helicoil holes?
Thru holes, part is about 3/8 to 1/2 in thickness.
Also, any particular coatings I should steer clear of?
Thanks.

 

[mhajicek]

I've had good luck with Harvey, Redline, Scientific Cutting Tools, and Whizcut threadmils. The latter did 000-120 in grade 5. For coatings, TIALN, ALTIN, ALCRN, whatever the maker decides to put on it for "hard materials" seems to work out fine. Tipped off (tip flat) lasts longer.

 

[UnicornTears]

My company recently launched a new line of metalworking fluids (MWF), specifically designed for machining refractory (Tungsten, Tantalum, Niobium, Molybdenum) or very difficult metals and alloys (Ti, Inconel, TZM, etc). We offer a higher viscosity fluid (MWF100) that would work well for manual application in tapping, drilling, threading. We've seen half the coefficient of friction versus the next best fluid for Titanium so you'll see better speed, tool life and surface finish. We offer a variety of different viscosities but here's a link to some more information on our MWF100 ( https://halocarbon.com/engineered-fluids/metalworking-fluids/halocarbon-mwf100/).

 

[LOTT]

My company recently launched a new line of metalworking fluids (MWF), specifically designed for machining refractory (Tungsten, Tantalum, Niobium, Molybdenum) or very difficult metals and alloys (Ti, Inconel, TZM, etc). We offer a higher viscosity fluid (MWF100) that would work well for manual application in tapping, drilling, threading. We've seen half the coefficient of friction versus the next best fluid for Titanium so you'll see better speed, tool life and surface finish. We offer a variety of different viscosities but here's a link to some more information on our MWF100 ( https://halocarbon.com/engineered-fluids/metalworking-fluids/halocarbon-mwf100/).

Welcome to the forum, maybe. This is sort of on topic and a live thread so you'll probably get away with it, but don't dredge up a bunch of 12 year old threads to talk about fluids...

 

[EmGo]

We offer a higher viscosity fluid (MWF100) that would work well for manual application in tapping, drilling, threading.

Recently saw one of those "why didn't I think of that?" videos. You know how usually you'd program a stop or dwell or something, reach in (these days ? ha !) and brush on some lube for a difficult tap or whatever ?

These guys taped a plastic cup to a known place on the table (was the edge of the vise in this case). Prgorammed a move over there in xy then a z move to dip the tap in juice, then up and back over to tap the holes. Was totally simple but cute and would work perfect.

Maybe only fill the cup half full if the table is flying around at 800 meters/min but otherwise, clever trick.

 

[VTM]

Obviously not the size you need. But they have It. Specifically we are using the GFS83706.5003. And we can get 400+ holes thread milling a #4-40 bottom hole In 6AL4V.

 

[LOTT]

Obviously not the size you need. But they have It. Specifically we are using the GFS83706.5003. And we can get 400+ holes thread milling a #4-40 bottom hole In 6AL4V.

Where do you buy those? A quick search of the usual suspects shows $175, which seems a bit steep.

 

[VTM]

Where do you buy those? A quick search of the usual suspects shows $175, which seems a bit steep.

I get them from a local supplier. And yeah, they aren't cheap. I'd have to look back to see what I actually paid. At $175. That equates to $1.75/ea. For the parts we're making. Not a deal breaker for a part that sells for over $125/ea. And the hassle they save is priceless. No special fluids, no broken taps. Just run and done.

 

[UnicornTears]

Welcome to the forum, maybe. This is sort of on topic and a live thread so you'll probably get away with it, but don't dredge up a bunch of 12 year old threads to talk about fluids...

 

[UnicornTears]

Welcome to the forum, maybe. This is sort of on topic and a live thread so you'll probably get away with it, but don't dredge up a bunch of 12 year old threads to talk about fluids...

Thank you for the feedback! Let me give a little background and ask for some advice. My company started in specialty chemistry 70 years ago after the founder's work on the Manhattan project - very unique chemistry. I joined a little over a year ago and found a handful of customers using our chemistry to wire draw, tube draw, mill, hone, thread and turn difficult materials (e.g. Tantalum, Tungsten, Niobium, Molybdenum, Titanium and Ta10W). I tried to get more info from them but almost all said no, it's the best kept secret or classified.

We started to develop our own data package and commercialized a new line of specific metalworking fluids (MWF). Lawrence Livermore National Lab completed two studies showing significant tool life extension and unbelievable surface finish turning Ta (Ra=0.138), 200-500% better than all other fluids they've tested and what they require for their application. They are currently switching to our fluid for all their refractory metals. Another lab on their site tried the fluid when experiencing an "orange peel" finish on 304L and our MWF eliminated the issue. Another customer experienced 23X faster operations honing Ta10W gun barrels and another saw 7X tool life extension when drilling TZM. I just started a study with GA Tech and another with Oak Ridge National Lab to understand why our MWF works and I'm now trying to secure Air Force funding to show the benefits of our MWF on some of their high temperature alloys (e.g. TZM, C103, W24Re, Ti64, etc). I would still love to get feedback from some of the smaller shops working with these more difficult metals.

Of course, I would like to sell more MWF but I genuinely want to help and enable those that can use our fluids to further enable their capabilities and in some cases assist our warfighters. Our fluids are more expensive than traditional fluids so they're not a fit for all but can add value when machining difficult metals, where speed, tool life and/or surface finish are important.

This site was recommended to me from a couple new customers so I've been following and looking for instances where our MWF can really help one of the users and only commenting then. I would greatly appreciate if you have any suggestions on how I can spread the word and provide samples to those in need. Thank you!

 

[Mtndew]

I've had good luck with Harvey, Redline, Scientific Cutting Tools, and Whizcut threadmils. The latter did 000-120 in grade 5. For coatings, TIALN, ALTIN, ALCRN, whatever the maker decides to put on it for "hard materials" seems to work out fine. Tipped off (tip flat) lasts longer.

Thanks, I believe we're going with the Harvey Tri-cut thread mill for hard materials.

 

[rjwalker1973]

Thanks, I believe we're going with the Harvey Tri-cut thread mill for hard materials.

good choice. We have used those in titanium and Hastelloy with great results.

 

[LOTT]

Thank you for the feedback! Let me give a little background and ask for some advice. My company started in specialty chemistry 70 years ago after the founder's work on the Manhattan project - very unique chemistry. I joined a little over a year ago and found a handful of customers using our chemistry to wire draw, tube draw, mill, hone, thread and turn difficult materials (e.g. Tantalum, Tungsten, Niobium, Molybdenum, Titanium and Ta10W). I tried to get more info from them but almost all said no, it's the best kept secret or classified.

We started to develop our own data package and commercialized a new line of specific metalworking fluids (MWF). Lawrence Livermore National Lab completed two studies showing significant tool life extension and unbelievable surface finish turning Ta (Ra=0.138), 200-500% better than all other fluids they've tested and what they require for their application. They are currently switching to our fluid for all their refractory metals. Another lab on their site tried the fluid when experiencing an "orange peel" finish on 304L and our MWF eliminated the issue. Another customer experienced 23X faster operations honing Ta10W gun barrels and another saw 7X tool life extension when drilling TZM. I just started a study with GA Tech and another with Oak Ridge National Lab to understand why our MWF works and I'm now trying to secure Air Force funding to show the benefits of our MWF on some of their high temperature alloys (e.g. TZM, C103, W24Re, Ti64, etc). I would still love to get feedback from some of the smaller shops working with these more difficult metals.

Of course, I would like to sell more MWF but I genuinely want to help and enable those that can use our fluids to further enable their capabilities and in some cases assist our warfighters. Our fluids are more expensive than traditional fluids so they're not a fit for all but can add value when machining difficult metals, where speed, tool life and/or surface finish are important.

This site was recommended to me from a couple new customers so I've been following and looking for instances where our MWF can really help one of the users and only commenting then. I would greatly appreciate if you have any suggestions on how I can spread the word and provide samples to those in need. Thank you!

Side tangent, sorry, but it seems like the original question is answered.

@DAntonuccio, do you have any practical machining experience? Or did you just read the sales materiel? Not to be rude, but the Top Secret/Manhattan Project bit is a little over the top. Given the recent Congressional hearings you might get more traction claiming your oil came from Area 51...

The vendor-members that get the most traction are guys like Orange Vise and Maritool, who not only represent their product but are also a wealth of information. But they got that from years in the industry, not something that can be picked up overnight.

What you could do is pick up a handful of drill bits and a chunk of material- drill holes till failure using a standard coolant, then repeat with your special sauce. Even HSS in 304, just make it an exact comparison. Video it all and post it up.

 

[UnicornTears]

Side tangent, sorry, but it seems like the original question is answered.

@DAntonuccio, do you have any practical machining experience? Or did you just read the sales materiel? Not to be rude, but the Top Secret/Manhattan Project bit is a little over the top. Given the recent Congressional hearings you might get more traction claiming your oil came from Area 51...

The vendor-members that get the most traction are guys like Orange Vise and Maritool, who not only represent their product but are also a wealth of information. But they got that from years in the industry, not something that can be picked up overnight.

What you could do is pick up a handful of drill bits and a chunk of material- drill holes till failure using a standard coolant, then repeat with your special sauce. Even HSS in 304, just make it an exact comparison. Video it all and post it up.

Still slightly off topic - sorry to the group but I truly am trying to further enable people with our metalworking fluids and appreciate any feedback.

I definitely do not have as much experience as you or most of the site users but I am learning and have some background from early in my career when I ran my previous company's engine test lab. I'll definitely keep an eye out for Orange Vise, Maritool and others on here to further expand my knowledge. I'm also continuing to work with the National Labs, Universities and our customers to develop the data package and our understanding. One of our customers just did the drilling study you recommended for TZM and that is where they were able to drill 37 holes with our fluid vs 4 with their traditional fluid. I'll need to ask if they can share a video or develop our own and share where applicable.

I did get a good laugh at the Area 51 comment - thanks! Truthfully, our founder did work on the Manhattan Project and that chemistry is what started our company. He unfortunately passed away but the company is still in existence and developing very unique chemistries to solve customer problems. Here's a short obituary for him showing his work on the project and the formation of Halocarbon - https://www.legacy.com/us/obituaries/nytimes/name/robert-ehrenfeld-obituary?id=29372390.

Thanks again for the feedback!

 

[dandrummerman21]

Well, the OP asked about threadmills. Coolants recommendations are a valid point to suggest, in general. But "tapping fluids", not so much, since it doesn't sound like he planned on tapping.

Wouldn't want a thick tapping fluid in the hole that you're threadmilling in!

 

[Cole2534]

Maybe only fill the cup half full if the table is flying around at 800 meters/min but otherwise, clever trick.

Using cups with a lid and making the hole just large enough for the tool to enter will help retain fluids through sloshing. Be sure to properly restrain the cup so that it stays on location.

EDIT- I suppose you could also make up something like the lid of a to-go cup, where the precut flaps kind of wrap around the straw when inserted and then somewhat seal up when the straw is removed.

There's probably about a million ways you could use baffles to do this. Could even code in a helix to stir that shit up.

 

[dandrummerman21]

Using cups with a lid and making the hole just large enough for the tool to enter will help retain fluids through sloshing. Be sure to properly restrain the cup so that it stays on location.

EDIT- I suppose you could also make up something like the lid of a to-go cup, where the precut flaps kind of wrap around the straw when inserted and then somewhat seal up when the straw is removed.

There's probably about a million ways you could use baffles to do this. Could even code in a helix to stir that shit up.

on a horizontal, i have hung a small animal water bottle (the kind with a steel ball in the end that keeps the water in) on the side of a pallet.


fill it with a tapping fluid.


push the tap into the steel ball and let the tap fluid get on the tool. then tap a hole or two. return to the waterbottle as needed.


Edit. The kind of bottle I have has a plug that you can fill at the top, so you don't need to remove the whole thing to fill it.

Double edit: anyone ever try concentrated coolant as a tapping oil? I know several coolant manufacturers make tapping fluid that "is compatible" or "mixes with" their coolant. Seems raw coolant might suffice in some situations? then a few seconds of coolant sprayed on the part washes it all away? Just a thought.

 

[mhajicek]

Semi-related, I've heard of mounting a wire brush on the side of a vise, as something to use to remove chips from a drill or tap while spinning it backwards.

 

[Cole2534]

Semi-related, I've heard of mounting a wire brush on the side of a vise, as something to use to remove chips from a drill or tap while spinning it backwards.

Fuck, I could had used that trick YEARS ago.

 

[Cole2534]

Double edit: anyone ever try concentrated coolant as a tapping oil?

That is probably worth some experimentation.