Gage for Internal groove diameters

csharp · Jan 16, 2015

I am looking for a gage to measure internal groove diameters to +/-.001

I would be willing to purchase a gage from Swissman but I called them and they are not currently producing them and probably won't for a couple of months. I asked it they were not common and special order. He said "nope can sell all we can make" They why aren't you making them.

Swissmann Groove Gage, Inside Diameter, ID

I tried Mueller Gage, was to told nothing is stock and would be 6-8 weeks.

Mueller Gages Company - 1900 Series

I need to ship the jog in 4 weeks so that is not going to work. They both are priced about $1000 the starret one is $2000

1175Z Dial Indicator Groove Gage

Anyone know of any alternatives?

Atomkinder · Jan 16, 2015

No experience with any of these:

Groove Diameter Gages | Gagemaker Houston TX | Gages, Series, Internal, Groove, Diameter | TDWIN Taper | API-Gauge | Gauges - Gagemaker Houston TX

838 EI - Mahr Metrology
(I did use an SPI that was very similar, it worked quite well)

Hanlo Gages

What level of gage are you seeking? Want to measure in .0005" or .0001" increments?

csharp · Jan 16, 2015

I will check out gagemaker. I need to measure up to 6" diameter 3.5" down the bore.

BobM3 · Jan 16, 2015

I got my Mueller on Ebay.

Mmtz · Jan 16, 2015

I got a Starrett off ebay for $600 in almost new condition about a year ago. I would check there and see if you can find another one.

csharp · Jan 16, 2015

Mmtz said:
I got a Starrett off ebay for $600 in almost new condition about a year ago. I would check there and see if you can find another one.

I must be the worlds worst a searching. I have not been able to locate any on ebay.

Mmtz · Jan 16, 2015

csharp said:
I must be the worlds worst a searching. I have not been able to locate any on ebay.

I just checked on my purchase history and it looks like I paid $650 for it almost 2 years ago now, damn I can't believe it's been that long!!!

AFAIK he had a consignment store but he is no longer on ebay so I can;t ask him any more info about it.

Item description was " Starret inside grove gauge", item# 251227469733. Maybe looking for similar items?

HTH.

Mud · Jan 16, 2015

This Interapid gage will do the job - https://www.penntoolco.com/catalog/products/products.cfm?categoryID=4283

I have one and love it. I'm astounded at the current price. I did find 2 used ones on line at the usual location.

csharp · Jan 16, 2015

Mud said:
This Interapid gage will do the job - https://www.penntoolco.com/catalog/products/products.cfm?categoryID=4283

I have one and love it. I'm astounded at the current price. I did find 2 used ones on line at the usual location.

Wow they are not cheap. Thanks for the link.

opscimc · Jan 16, 2015

csharp said:
I am looking for a gage to measure internal groove diameters to +/-.001

No one has mentioned Indi-Cal yet. I picked one up fairly inexpensively but have never used it. However, I don't see why with care it couldn't give you the precision you require. They're certainly a lot less expensive than the alternatives that have been mentioned.

INDI-CAL INTERNAL GROOVE GAGE

csharp · Jan 19, 2015

Mud said:
This Interapid gage will do the job - https://www.penntoolco.com/catalog/products/products.cfm?categoryID=4283

I have one and love it. I'm astounded at the current price. I did find 2 used ones on line at the usual location.

Looks like Mueller and Swissmann are out of the question. Can't believe they have no stock. Not even the tips for a used one. What is the world coming to :confused:

Mud,
Do you have much experience with the one you linked to?
What about his linearity error I am reading about? Is it easy to compensate for?

aerodark · Jan 19, 2015

The depth of the groove seems to be the deal-breaker on the Mueller 1918. Do you have brazing capability? I would be tempted to braze some discs onto the end of the 1504 tips to allow further radial reach. It would allow you to clear the guides that measure about six inches. You also need to clear the thumbscrew that adjusts the travel of the gage.

These gages are comparative only, but can be used to quickly check dimensions on the machine. Final QC via height gage or CMM.

Mike1974 · Jan 19, 2015

opscimc said:
No one has mentioned Indi-Cal yet. I picked one up fairly inexpensively but have never used it. However, I don't see why with care it couldn't give you the precision you require. They're certainly a lot less expensive than the alternatives that have been mentioned.

INDI-CAL INTERNAL GROOVE GAGE

I've used those and find them to be 'suspect' . I guess it would depend on your tolerance. I think the big downfall on these is rigidity. Very hard to set and have it repeat, plus if I remember how to use them, they have a limited measuring range so if it is a deep groove forget it. A very simple concept and inexpensive as pointed out. Maybe you could find a way to modify one of these for your needs?

csharp · Jan 19, 2015

aerodark said:
The depth of the groove seems to be the deal-breaker on the Mueller 1918. Do you have brazing capability? I would be tempted to braze some discs onto the end of the 1504 tips to allow further radial reach. It would allow you to clear the guides that measure about six inches. You also need to clear the thumbscrew that adjusts the travel of the gage.

These gages are comparative only, but can be used to quickly check dimensions on the machine. Final QC via height gage or CMM.

Thanks. I am not sure what to do just yet. Pretty frustrating when you are willing to spend a little money to get a quality gage and you can't get one for 2 months. As for the special length arm, they require a special ratio indicator. Mueller told me I could just apply a 2 to 1 ratio on the longer arms and use the same indicator if I wanted to. Just does not have the longer arms in stock.

However you have me thinking that it may just work the way it is. The front of the bore is open to 7" diameter down 1.6" That only leaves 1.4" to reach down to the groove.

aerodark · Jan 19, 2015

If you want to try this one, I am willing to ship it to you if you cover the shipping and insurance both ways. I can ship it out today.

If you cannot make it work for your needs just return it.

csharp · Jan 19, 2015

aerodark said:
If you want to try this one, I am willing to ship it to you if you cover the shipping and insurance both ways. I can ship it out today.

If you cannot make it work for your needs just return it.

Wow, that is more than generous. I have 4 weeks to deliver the job. To be honest I am waiting to have the PO in hand before I do anymore. I have been given a verbal but we all know how that can change.

My other concern is that the one groove is 5" diameter and if i have to shrink it down to 5" there will be too much of the slide sticking up to get past the 7" diameter.

Let me think some more. Thank you so very much for your time on this. If I had any brains at all I should probably just buy it from you.

machinistrrt · Jan 19, 2015

Of the gages named, I've used and like the Starrett. Two not yet named are Kroeplin Intertest (Long Island Indicator)- I knew it as the Dyer Direct, and a Davis Omnigage. The Davis gage needs custom legs but is quite versatile, I used them for large groove diameters, and spigot bores too shallow for conventional bore gages.

vonleyser · Jan 19, 2015

Bought a Muller off eBay couple of years ago $100.00 & it came with 5 sets of tips. Use it carefully and I don't have any parts to rework.
came in handy last week, shop didn't have a gage to check parts before removing from machine, so I used my personal tool.&#55357;&#56842;
Not sure about the 2 to 1 ratio, set it and it repeats.

csharp · Jan 19, 2015

machinistrrt said:
Of the gages named, I've used and like the Starrett. Two not yet named are Kroeplin Intertest (Long Island Indicator)- I knew it as the Dyer Direct, and a Davis Omnigage. The Davis gage needs custom legs but is quite versatile, I used them for large groove diameters, and spigot bores too shallow for conventional bore gages.

I guess gage making and repair is the place to be.

LongIslandIndicator

We are currently closed for a winter break. Your order will not be processed until February 12. If this is problematic, please do not continue with check-out. Sorry, we cannot accept international orders at this time.

I guess the 312-b of mine they have wont be back anytime soon. Already been a few months.

Dyer Gage:
Just spoke with them on the 132 series and they don't have any "gage bodies' to assemble could be up to 10 weeks before they have any.

Starret only goes 2-13/16" deep according to the website.

gbent · Jan 19, 2015

Its been a while since I got rid of my Starrett groove gun, but I think you could build longer fingers. ISTR the action on the moveable finger is plain sliding, (as opposed to Muellers pivoting) so longer fingers won't mess up the calibration. The Starrett is faster and more accurate than the Interapid Mudd showed, but it is not nearly as versatile.

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