Brother : 2 machines or 1 pallet changer

[604Pook]

Have seen a shop improve # of good parts by utilizing a torque wrench. Seems funny but I can not believe there are still shops that do not use a torque wrench for fixturing/vise work.

How do you decide what torque to use?

I use a torque wrench/screwdriver setup on my tool inserts but for the vise I typically just tighten to what feels right and looks right for the parts and remember where the handle turns to. It’s just me so it’s not like I have other people tightening it up way different then I am.

I am assuming torque wrench is not much different it just has the audible and feel of the click so you are consistently tightening to the same spot?

 

[Houdini]

How do you decide what torque to use?

I use a torque wrench/screwdriver setup on my tool inserts but for the vise I typically just tighten to what feels right and looks right for the parts and remember where the handle turns to. It’s just me so it’s not like I have other people tightening it up way different then I am.

I am assuming torque wrench is not much different it just has the audible and feel of the click so you are consistently tightening to the same spot?

Not really in soft jaws over time things are changing. The same position isn't the same torque, and the torque is the difference.
I have seen parts change through out a day due to same position.
Its just easier to use the torque wrench. on regular stuff I do 40lbs. on dbl station vises.
Nice thing is you find the torque you like for different scenarios, and you can come back to them, writing them on your setup sheets.

I didnt want to screw around with cheap crap so I have 5 of these in the shop.

Amazon.com

edit: we have some parts that need to be torqued in at 85-90lbs, if not they get sucked out of the aluminum jaws, don't want to guess with this.
and at the same time @85-90lbs the Aluminum soft jaws are constantly being compressed, actually moving, until something happens,
either a work hardness reached, deformation in the form of bell mouthing, but something, you cant do 85-90lbs and not have thing move over time in 6061.
this is a good example.

 

[604Pook]

Not really in soft jaws over time things are changing. The same position isn't the same torque, and the torque is the difference.
I have seen parts change through out a day due to same position.
Its just easier to use the torque wrench. on regular stuff I do 40lbs. on dbl station vises.
Nice thing is you find the torque you like for different scenarios, and you can come back to them, writing them on your setup sheets.

I didnt want to screw around with cheap crap so I have 5 of these in the shop.

Amazon.com

Next run of parts I will have to try it out and see. Today is just simple one off runs of some brass parts that run for a couple of hours and a bunch of cad work.

 

[GiroDyno]

parts on the table must jump with the speed haha !

I find this product https://gimbelautomation.com/
there's even a program generator! in the resource tab

Everybody's gotta make a living, but man $2k for an air bypass is a lot.
And a $300/100% markup on pressure boosters that can just be bought direct from SMC... Time is money, but if you're just buying stuff off the internet how much is saving yourself one extra google search worth?

 

[604Pook]

Everybody's gotta make a living, but man $2k for an air bypass is a lot.
And a $300/100% markup on pressure boosters that can just be bought direct from SMC...

Some people just want to hit the easy button and get everything in one buy.

I try and save some $ when I can but that doesn’t always work out

 

[GiroDyno]

Some people just want to hit the easy button and get everything in one buy.

I try and save some $ when I can but that doesn’t always work out

There's literally an SMC part number in the picture, it took 8 seconds.
They do include $8 in magnets and $5 in fittings so I guess that saves 5-10 more mouse clicks.

 

[DavidScott]

How do you decide what torque to use?

I use a torque wrench/screwdriver setup on my tool inserts but for the vise I typically just tighten to what feels right and looks right for the parts and remember where the handle turns to. It’s just me so it’s not like I have other people tightening it up way different then I am.

I am assuming torque wrench is not much different it just has the audible and feel of the click so you are consistently tightening to the same spot?

The thing about using a torque wrench is it improves consistency by a much larger amount than you can imagine, until you do it. My limitation to how fast I can machine parts is often how well I can hold them. Torqueing the clamps down allows me to push it closer to the edge without the parts, or tools, moving. If you machine UHMW or similar it is a game changer. Try it for a while, even if you don't continue the knowledge is worth it. And I assume you already torque all of your collet nuts and such? If not this again is a game changer even for a one man shop.

 

[604Pook]

The thing about using a torque wrench is it improves consistency by a much larger amount than you can imagine, until you do it. My limitation to how fast I can machine parts is often how well I can hold them. Torqueing the clamps down allows me to push it closer to the edge without the parts, or tools, moving. If you machine UHMW or similar it is a game changer. Try it for a while, even if you don't continue the knowledge is worth it. And I assume you already torque all of your collet nuts and such? If not this again is a game changer even for a one man shop.

Yes I torque the tooling, collet nuts and insert screws.

I will have to try it on the work holding.

 

[Houdini]

The thing about using a torque wrench is it improves consistency by a much larger amount than you can imagine, until you do it. My limitation to how fast I can machine parts is often how well I can hold them. Torqueing the clamps down allows me to push it closer to the edge without the parts, or tools, moving. If you machine UHMW or similar it is a game changer. Try it for a while, even if you don't continue the knowledge is worth it. And I assume you already torque all of your collet nuts and such? If not this again is a game changer even for a one man shop.

Oh yeah I forgot to mention soft plastics, totally! (I hate the fuqing phrase game changer ) but yup, gotta use torque on soft plastics, but only if you want them in tolerance.
But also reminding me of your vijeos, it also allows you to go faster, you turn until click, fast, then your out.
or in your case torque screw driver, hit the button, out, bam quick, done!

edit: to be totally correct though, vise handles without torque is faster.

 

[Fal Grunt]

How do you decide what torque to use?

I use a torque wrench/screwdriver setup on my tool inserts but for the vise I typically just tighten to what feels right and looks right for the parts and remember where the handle turns to. It’s just me so it’s not like I have other people tightening it up way different then I am.

I am assuming torque wrench is not much different it just has the audible and feel of the click so you are consistently tightening to the same spot?

Since Eric is paying attention to this thread, I'm going to ask a similar question. I've been using the Delta pallets and had "drift" over the course of hundreds of clamps unclamps. I started out using 20 ft/lbs, but then upped it to 40 ft/lbs. If I repeatedly clamp/unclamp the pallet prior to cutting the fixtures I get less drift. I wondered though if there was a recommended torque and procedure for "breaking in" the pallets prior to running them.

 

[604Pook]

Oh yeah I forgot to mention soft plastics, totally! (I hate the fuqing phrase game changer ) but yup, gotta use torque on soft plastics, but only if you want them in tolerance.
But also reminding me of your vijeos, it also allows you to go faster, you turn until click, fast, then your out.
or in your case torque screw driver, hit the button, out, bam quick, done!

I like that air toque screw driver. I use some mitee bite clamps on a couple of small pallets and if I start running those parts more often I will have to get one. I have just been using my battery powered small impact but I don’t know how consistent it is when using its torque 1,2,3 settings

 

[Houdini]

Since Eric is paying attention to this thread, I'm going to ask a similar question. I've been using the Delta pallets and had "drift" over the course of hundreds of clamps unclamps. I started out using 20 ft/lbs, but then upped it to 40 ft/lbs. If I repeatedly clamp/unclamp the pallet prior to cutting the fixtures I get less drift. I wondered though if there was a recommended torque and procedure for "breaking in" the pallets prior to running them.

If I ran those a lot I would put in some bushings, even in my Aluminum mold alignment pins(same situation) I use bronze or steel bushings.

 

[Fal Grunt]

If I ran those a lot I would put in some bushings, even in my Aluminum mold alignment pins(same situation) I use bronze or steel bushings.

These are the delta pallets that use the dovetail for alignment and clamping.

 

[Houdini]

These are the delta pallets that use the dovetail for alignment and clamping.

Oh yeah, I forgot about those, I was think'n old school pins, sorry.
with mating surfaces of soft materials like that, I would think you would over torque them a few times, then come back to your running torque, remove some compression deformation, misalignment, high spots....
before machining the pallet.

 

[Mtndew]

Torque wrench schmorque wrench.
We only use one for our self centering vises.

 

[DavidScott]

Oh yeah I forgot to mention soft plastics, totally! (I hate the fuqing phrase game changer ) but yup, gotta use torque on soft plastics, but only if you want them in tolerance.
But also reminding me of your vijeos, it also allows you to go faster, you turn until click, fast, then your out.
or in your case torque screw driver, hit the button, out, bam quick, done!

edit: to be totally correct though, vise handles without torque is faster.

With my Mitee-bite uniforce style clamps those torque screwdrivers are game changers. The compression of the plastic is now very consistent as well as how well they are held. Add serrated teeth to the sides of the clamps and WOW! Being soft plastic you don't need them sharp, you want large flats on the ends so they barely mar the plastic.

 

[DavidScott]

I like that air toque screw driver. I use some mitee bite clamps on a couple of small pallets and if I start running those parts more often I will have to get one. I have just been using my battery powered small impact but I don’t know how consistent it is when using its torque 1,2,3 settings

The air drivers I use are around $700-$1300 new so expect them to be a lot better at torquing the screws down. They will spoil you, and only cost $30-$80 on flEabay.

 

[GiroDyno]

With my Mitee-bite uniforce style clamps those torque screwdrivers are game changers. The compression of the plastic is now very consistent as well as how well they are held. Add serrated teeth to the sides of the clamps and WOW! Being soft plastic you don't need them sharp, you want large flats on the ends so they barely mar the plastic.

We tried using pneumatic torque guns for some assembly work, they only last a few (2-5?) thousand cycles before the torque value starts to wander. So if you're torquing 10 screws every 3 minutes, 40 hours a week, you may want to consider getting the calibration equipment to go with the tool.
Your values will be consistent from screw 1 to screw 10, or screws 5001 to 5010, but the torque you put on screw 1 and screw 5001 are going to be very different.

 

[gkoenig]

We tried using pneumatic torque guns for some assembly work, they only last a few (2-5?) thousand cycles before the torque value starts to wander. So if you're torquing 10 screws every 3 minutes, 40 hours a week, you may want to consider getting the calibration equipment to go with the tool.
Your values will be consistent from screw 1 to screw 10, or screws 5001 to 5010, but the torque you put on screw 1 and screw 5001 are going to be very different.

I've found the current crop of drill/drivers from Milwaukee to be very consistent on torque, cheap, and extremely reliable. Cheap to replace when they wear out. If you want to spoil yourself, SnapOn's 14v MicroLithium drivers have a killer toggle trigger and (the best feature) a magnetic boot for the battery so you can literally just slap it on the side of the enclosure when not in use.

 

[GiroDyno]

We tried Milwaukee electric drivers but batteries kinda suck to deal with. They're constantly being dropped or lost or somehow they don't end up back on the charger and even when they do they aren't actually seated and charging... they also have inconsistent torque at low power.
I bet they would last 2x as long if we used a different brand between each cell so batteries weren't cross compatible because they wouldn't wander off, and when someone dropped one they couldn't get away with blaming somebody else!

We replaced one of the M18s with a cheap 3/8" pneumatic impact from Home Depot and as long as operators count the ugga-duggas it torques just as consistently as the M18 ever did. It also weighs half as much. If such thing as a pneumatic-trigger-relay-timer-thingy exists I'd stick one on that impact and never look back.

Since this is just workholding and not a piece of mission critical flight hardware we have more leeway in the actual torque used. A donut shaped load cell allows us to check the actual clamping forces as needed. YMMV