I own German metal lathes (Weilers, in a hobby shop, I admit) but it's by chance and a little by 'mystique' (internet discussions such as this talked them up, I found three inexpensive ones fairly close by at different times and bought all three).
So I ask--in the spirit of inquiry and of continuing this discussion--does the Martin joint better than the others? Unlikely of course, a straight joint's a joint. It may, of course, as a new machine compared to an old not carefully tended but not damaged machine, not need adjusting. It may also, as a new machine made properly, compared to an old machine that is damaged, be able to be used without modification. It may also have a better design, but, I think all the jointer designs worked to joint wood.
Just what is better?
Or, is the discussion here just about new versus old?
I liked hearing about the faults in Chris' Oliver, though it seems amazing to me that it had so many. The Olivers were marketed to pattern shops and vocational schools, I think and were very successful at filling those roles. They sold a lot of them and jointed a lot of wood. If the one discussed was that bad than another one might not have been; the details of the specific don't hold for the general, I don't think. (Though I agree that the far pedestals of these don't seem to me the best design I am quite sure they were a workable design.)
Agreed that Northfield hung in there as a remnant business, probably through some government contracts specifying US made. Agreed that their tables look nice.
I don't mean to be argumentative, just thoughtful.
Chris, 'Greenfield?' Is that Greenfield, Mass? I've bought machines there. One of the Weilers came from southeastern Vermont, just a few miles away actually.
Yup, Greenfield MA.
In response to "If the one discussed was that bad than another one might not have been; the details of the specific don't hold for the general, I don't think." - I would point out that when I phoned up Rich, the guy at Eagle Machinery who used to work for Oliver, and i told him how badly warped the fence was, his response was: "Yes, those fences often warped". Didn't sound like he was too surprised. Interesting too how and Oliver employee could have been well aware of that shortcoming and yet Oliver never changed the design or their manufacturing practices. When Oliver went out of business in the 1980's they were still making the same machine.
I think in terms of basic functionality, that is, having a pair of tables which are flat and co-planer to one another and the cutterhead, you are quite right that any jointer with those ducks in a row will perform well.
However,
good performance goes a bit beyond just the basics I think:
-I much prefer a modern 4-knife Tersa head to the older type with conventional knives. Four knives beats three in any case, but being able to change knives in a couple of minutes and get on with the woodwork suits me, and the Tersa head is so much quieter than the conventional type as it doesn't beat the air as much.
-similarly, the Martin (and most other modern German jointerss) has slotted table lips which reduces the air beating and overall dBA level. Old machines don't have that.
-the very old jointers often have square cutterblocks with two knives and those are simply dangerous
-I prefer a braked motor to one that just spins for minutes afterwards
-The Oliver blade guard got in the way while i worked, and annoyed me, while the Martin guard is a segmented porkchop type which is completely out of my way while working
-the Oliver fence can be moved in and out and tilted effortlessly with one hand, from the front of the machine without bending over much. The Aigner fence is absolutely rigid when locked - the same cannot be said for the Oliver fence, or the fence on a Felder jointer I had years back.
-the Martin comes stock with a capacity to easily tilt the tables to create sprung joints, something only some older patternmaker's jointers (like Northfield) were equipped with.
-like most modern machines, the Martin comes with a large prominent emergency shut off button, which, combined with the motor brake is a safety feature.
One of the other details about jointing accurately relates to the infeed table length. The longer the infeed, the better the positioning of the material coming into the cutterhead. This allows for much better jointing of long pieces. The Martin has a 2m infeed - 78.75" - which is a full 30" longer than any US-made jointer you will find (as far as I'm aware).
Finally, I am surprised to find that I really like the powered raise and lower of the tables on the Martin. I find it very convenient to have a button right at the front of the machine to do this instead of moving around to the end of the infeed table and operating a handwheel. The Martin depth gauge is extremely easy to read while standing at the machine operating position, rather than having to squat down and squint at a metal needle as on the Oliver (which, come to think of it, was another part on that machine which required rebuilding). The convenience has led me to make more frequent slight adjustments to cutting depth than I would otherwise and this has improved my wood utilization and speed of work a bit I think. It's a bit like when bicycles went from friction shifting to index shifting in the 1980's - it meant that you could shift exactly when you needed to and tended to make for more efficient cycling and largely eliminated blown shifts.
The two biggest reasons I bought the Martin were the Tersa head and the long infeed table length. The rest is icing on the cake. I really don't mean to gloat at all - I am fortunate, that's all, and have been putting up with crap equipment in other areas for far too long. Woodworking is my profession - why shouldn't I have the best machines I can afford if they improve the quality and enjoyment of the work? I think anyone who's passionate about their craft, whether a baker, a saddle-maker, a machinist, etc., and strives to produce good work will naturally want the best equipment they can find, and will want to keep them in top condition.
And just so you don't all think I'm some sort of zillionaire, this purchase only became possible when a relative died and left me some money. I had been saving up for one, but had only imagined I would score a used one at some point.
And, given that most on this forum are machinists, I would be interested to know whether those out there with the
old arn jointers would be satisfied with the same vintage of metalworking machines in their shop?
