Hardinge GX 1000

[Floyd29]

Hi, does anyone has any experience with Hardinge gx 1000 (made in Taiwan)?
We are considering this machine for our captive Toolroom where we make injection mould for rubber & plastic products. We are mostly cutting stainless steel & P20 steel.

The machine has 12000 RPM , Greece packed IDD spindle, roller guideways. Overall good build for the price. The controller is siemens 828 D or Fanuc Oi.

Our other option is YCM NXV 1020 AM which has very similar specification. With following Major differences -

1. YCM has has oil/air mist lubrication in spindle whereas hardinge GX has Greece packed.
2.YCM ball screw is 35 mm as compared to 40 mm in hardinge.
3. Hardinge has double nut on ball screw whereas YCM NXV has single nut.
4. Hardinge GX has 5 support blocks in X & Y, YCM has four support blocks in X & Y.
5. Ball screw pitch in YCM = 8mm , Hardinge GX = 10mm

Price wise both machines are more or less equal so we have to make choice based on technicals.

We were closely considering DMG MORI CMX model which is also closely priced (little bit more) but due to past performance & feedback of its previous ECO series had to discard it. However, if anyone believes that DMG CMX model is better than above mentioned machine then we would surely like to discuss.

 

[ktmktmman]

We have a DMG ecomill 50 and a 70 3+2 machine and we love them. I've been running the ecomill 50 for the last 4 years in tool steel every day and service hasn't came in yet. We got a ecomill 70 about two years ago and we had a few issues with central lube not building pressure. Service came in a couple times and got it resolved. We were looking to maybe purchase a CMX1100 for this year. We have bought a DMG MORI machine every year for the last 6 years mostly because there service center is close to us. I would however have to agree with you some of the earlier 3 axis eco machines were not impressive. Also I would recommend the Siemens controller over anything else. I would personally go with the CMX with the 840d control..... but I'm kinda biased. But if it was between the hardinge and the ycm I would go hardinge all day. A few years ago I toured a Morris Group service center were they put together okumas and hardinge machines(after they arived in the states) and I was really impressed with there quality. I thought it was pretty cool that you could put a okuma OSP control on a hardinge machine. Good luck!

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[Floyd29]

We have a DMG ecomill 50 and a 70 3+2 machine and we love them. I've been running the ecomill 50 for the last 4 years in tool steel every day and service hasn't came in yet. We got a ecomill 70 about two years ago and we had a few issues with central lube not building pressure. Service came in a couple times and got it resolved. We were looking to maybe purchase a CMX1100 for this year. We have bought a DMG MORI machine every year for the last 6 years mostly because there service center is close to us. I would however have to agree with you some of the earlier 3 axis eco machines were not impressive. Also I would recommend the Siemens controller over anything else. I would personally go with the CMX with the 840d control..... but I'm kinda biased. But if it was between the hardinge and the ycm I would go hardinge all day. A few years ago I toured a Morris Group service center were they put together okumas and hardinge machines(after they arived in the states) and I was really impressed with there quality. I thought it was pretty cool that you could put a okuma OSP control on a hardinge machine. Good luck!

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Thanks for your message. Yes, indeed it is hard to leave DMG CMX at this price. I had spoken to DMG ppl & they have confirmed that they have changed the casting to support the Y movement on the spindle. So they tried to improve their machine rigidity further.

You have mentioned 'tool steel'! Are you referring to Die & mould type work? Its very encouraging to know your feedback on this machine.We have no doubt on Siemens 840 D. I think its a big plus with CMX. It will certainly help us with 3D contouring. Also, their presence is much more when compared to Hardinge or YCM here in India.

However, our major doubt with this model is Spindle rigidity. Have you ever experienced any issue with part height that could arise from Spindle inaccuracy along Z axis?

 

[ARB]

I've been running a Hardinge XR1000 for about 6 years now. Bought it used and it's been a solid machine. It would do well for mold work. The XR is the top shelf machine but very similar to the GX

 

[Whysosharp]

We have a GX 480 smaller machine but very robust with Fanuc Oi. My gut tells me go with the hardinge but that's because Robert E Morris is a 45 minute drive from the shop. We also have 4 Supermax Rebels made by YCM and they've been cranking out parts going 15-20 years now so they are a solid choice too. It depends on the service you can get but I think either machine would serve you well. I have heard mixed feelings on DMG for a while now so in my opinion I'd steer clear especially since you said in your earlier post that they had to adjust the casting to support the spindle better. That to me sounds sketchy since the most important part of the machine from the start is the one that's making the chips.

 

[ktmktmman]

Thanks for your message. Yes, indeed it is hard to leave DMG CMX at this price. I had spoken to DMG ppl & they have confirmed that they have changed the casting to support the Y movement on the spindle. So they tried to improve their machine rigidity further.

You have mentioned 'tool steel'! Are you referring to Die & mould type work? Its very encouraging to know your feedback on this machine.We have no doubt on Siemens 840 D. I think its a big plus with CMX. It will certainly help us with 3D contouring. Also, their presence is much more when compared to Hardinge or YCM here in India.

However, our major doubt with this model is Spindle rigidity. Have you ever experienced any issue with part height that could arise from Spindle inaccuracy along Z axis?

Yes we run die and mold steel 95% of the time in these machines even finishing parts after heat treating to around 50 Rockwell with no problems. I have not noticed any errors in our machines z axis. They both have scale feedback and they have thermal growth compensation tied to the spindle temp. I can take a 3" diameter 8 flute face mill 1/8" deep @ 75% step over with the spindle load right at 100% and it will cut all day running like that. There spindles are rock solid so far since they a made by Kessler. I don't know what kind of spindle they are putting on the new CMX machines. I know on the high end machines like the EVO and Monobloks they are using there own built in house spindle called the speed master or power master I believe. What kind of work do you want to do with this machine?

 

[Floyd29]

Yes we run die and mold steel 95% of the time in these machines even finishing parts after heat treating to around 50 Rockwell with no problems. I have not noticed any errors in our machines z axis. They both have scale feedback and they have thermal growth compensation tied to the spindle temp. I can take a 3" diameter 8 flute face mill 1/8" deep @ 75% step over with the spindle load right at 100% and it will cut all day running like that. There spindles are rock solid so far since they a made by Kessler. I don't know what kind of spindle they are putting on the new CMX machines. I know on the high end machines like the EVO and Monobloks they are using there own built in house spindle called the speed master or power master I believe. What kind of work do you want to do with this machine?

Thanks for your reply.
We will be making injection & compressions moulds on this machine. As you have stated will be cutting hardened materials as well (approx 50 HRC). Our jobs can range from simple 2d shapes (like Rubber seals, gaskets) to complex 3D contouring shapes like plastic safety helmets.

Your example of face mill cutter is quite good. Normally, in an old machine we have observed issues of not getting absolutely flat surface. There is usually a line at the step over region & we can feel the difference in height between two different passes. Its a very good sign that DMG Ecomill has not given that sort of issue in 5 years or so. I'll keep this point in mind while making decision.

 

[dstryr]

Before buying a budget DMG / Mori machine with a kessler spindle I would ask them a cost on a spindle replacement. I heard a lot of the budget machines that sell for $80-100k have spindle replacements around $40k....

I know when I was shopping for a DMU 65 Monoblock they told me a spindle replacement was $90k.....

 

[ktmktmman]

Thanks for your reply.
We will be making injection & compressions moulds on this machine. As you have stated will be cutting hardened materials as well (approx 50 HRC). Our jobs can range from simple 2d shapes (like Rubber seals, gaskets) to complex 3D contouring shapes like plastic safety helmets.

Your example of face mill cutter is quite good. Normally, in an old machine we have observed issues of not getting absolutely flat surface. There is usually a line at the step over region & we can feel the difference in height between two different passes. Its a very good sign that DMG Ecomill has not given that sort of issue in 5 years or so. I'll keep this point in mind while making decision.

No problem hope this helps as I know it is difficult to choose a machine when there are so many things to consider! It sounds like your older machine needs a health check up if you can feel a difference in height between passes. Sounds like it has been crashed and the spindle axis is no longer perpendicular to X and Y or you have some backlash issues with the ball screw or thrust bearing in the Z or even the machine needs re-leveled and check the machine column perpendicularity to XY. I would also have to agree with dstryr that the spindles on the DMG machines are quite expensive.

 

[Milland]

I would also have to agree with dstryr that the spindles on the DMG machines are quite expensive.

I was floored when I read that estimate. I'd hope that's a full replacement, and the old core would have recouped at least half that.

 

[Vancbiker]

....I know when I was shopping for a DMU 65 Monoblock they told me a spindle replacement was $90k.....

That's nuts! A 32,000 RPM 100+HP Makino MAG spindle is less than that by enough to buy a decent car!

 

[mkd]

Before buying a budget DMG / Mori machine with a kessler spindle I would ask them a cost on a spindle replacement. I heard a lot of the budget machines that sell for $80-100k have spindle replacements around $40k....

I know when I was shopping for a DMU 65 Monoblock they told me a spindle replacement was $90k.....

kind of explains the Grob purchase
lucky bast...

90k is hard to even wrap my head around..