Japanese ( ? ) used machine tool dealer videos...where are these machines ?

[jCandlish]

That is significantly different from the Schaublin. I wish that you had shown the machine without the -i control. That would have made direct comparison more pertinent.

The Schaublin has 9 canned cycles. Line, Circle, Corner, Roughing, Facing, Side-cutting, Hole-machining, Pocketing, and Limited-boundry.

Each of the cycles has sub-menus. For example patterns are a sub-menu of Hole-machining. The selection would be hole type, (I've skipped over the screen with the hole parameters settings), pattern type, then pattern settings.

It seems like on the Makino you select the positioning first and then specify the type of hole???

Notice also on the Schaubin the sloppy programing of the positioning menu, the softkeys are unlabeled and the screen heading 'POSTIONING' is in reverse video. That kind of crap has really put me off the Series-20 controlled CCN lathes.

It would be interesting to see the software version installed on the Makino. This screen is from before the CRT failed.

The spindle RPM is whatever you have the manual spindle speed pot set at...

One the Schaublin there is a tool-table. You call it up from the 'tool' soft-key of any of the cycle screens.

That tool table corresponds to the 32 position offset table of ISO mode.

It is set up so that offsets 1->16 are tool length, and 17->32 are tool radius. Offsets 33->48 are spindle speeds, but you can't easily reach them from either the ISO or guidance screens. You can set them individually from the 'param' softkey menu of any cycle screen, or from the macro variables screens of ISO mode.

or boring head, or whatever

The hole cycles don't have a proper boring cycle. For that you need G87/G88 from ISO mode.

Regardless of how they have designed their user interfaces, I'm fairly certain that both the Schaublin and Makino are based upon the same G500 codes.

To work around the limitations of the teach-in mode, and expand the program memory capability when using Macro-B, I wrote a little program that emulates the FANUC Program File Mate.

For this I had to reverse engineer the communication protocol.

The program lets me share files on a computer with the FANUC control.

And access them directly from the control as if they were local, with M198 for example.

Works pretty good.

Anyways, thats my FANUC Series-20 photoessay.

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[Milacron]

That is significantly different from the Schaublin. I wish that you had shown the machine without the -i control. That would have made direct comparison more pertinent.
It seems like on the Makino you select the positioning first and then specify the type of hole???

The Skill Master and graphics on the 20 are almost the same as on the 20i. Only difference I can think of is the "To" button and the 20i has one or two more direct program type buttons. The 20 still has the same number of program types but one or two of them are incorporated into the "pattern" menu on the 20. Re selecting position type first and then hole type, yep.

Very interesting about the G500 codes....so that's how they did it...

It is interesting to see your color graphics as that is sort of what my 20 looks like when I connect a color LCD to it...except no orange anywhere...wonder how Schaublin got that orange ?

 

[jCandlish]

It is interesting to see your color graphics as that is sort of what my 20 looks like when I connect a color LCD to it...except no orange anywhere...

That should be red. Orange is not an option

wonder how Schaublin got that orange ?

As best I can figure the user interface was programmed via Symbolic FAPT Macro, and the screen colors are determined by the G240 codes specified therein.

/*
@COLOR	G240	/*	Display color select.
@BLACK	G240P0	/*	Black.
@RED	G240P1	/*	Red.
@GREEN	G240P2	/*	Green.
@YELLOW	G240P3	/*	Yellow.
@BLUE	G240P4	/*	Blue.
@PERPLE	G240P5	/*	Perple.
@SKYBL	G240P6	/*	Sky–blue.
@WHITE	G240P7	/*	White.
@REDR	G240P–1	/*	Reverse	Red.
@GREENR	G240P–2	/*	Reverse	Green.
@YELLOWR	G240P–3	/*	Reverse	Yellow.
@BLUER	G240P–4	/*	Reverse	Blue.
@PERPLER	G240P–5	/*	Reverse	Perple.
@SKYBLR	G240P–6	/*	Reverse	Sky–blue.

I wonder what color Perple is?

And then there is this...

/*
@ELASE  	G202	/*	CRT erase.
@ELASEGR	G202P1	/*	Graphic erase.
@ELASECH	G202P2	/*	Charactor erase.
@ELASEAL	G202P3	/*	Graphic & Character erase.

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[jCandlish]

Last edited by Milacron; 09-06-2014 at 05:27 PM.

OOh!!! You've got B-62174EN/03* !!!

Therein, in Chapter 10 for example, you will notice the wide divergence of Makino's guidance implementation from the FANUC standard.

---
* AKA. FANUC Series 20-FA Operator's Manual. A rare document indeed!

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[Admin5]

--
FANUC Series 20-FA Operator's Manual. A rare document indeed!

I ordered it from Fanuc....took over two months to get it...slow printers in Japan apparently...50 bucks. Last week I bought the Fanuc 20 Maintenance manual off an eBay seller for 20 bucks...that one is not here yet. Also recently bought the Fanuc 20i maintenance manual (which covers also 16i, 18i, and 21i)....that one is a two volume monster over 800 pages total from eBay for 50 bucks (both volumes)

In your photo below the reverse engineering comment.... what are the various hardware doo dads and boards pictured ?

Milacron

 

[jCandlish]

I bought

I had all those manuals. You know my e-mail.

In your photo below the reverse engineering comment.... what are the various hardware doo dads and boards pictured ?

That is a FANUC Floppy Cassette Adapter, all stripped down. I inserted a break-out board downstream so I could snoop both sides of the serial protocol.

Rather trivial, really.

The bitch was that FANUC doesn't follow standard RS-232 protocols. Figuring that out wasn't so trivial.



.

 

[Admin5]

I had all those manuals. You know my e-mail.

I'd rather have the original paper bound copies if the price is not outrageous. Printing and binding (3 ring, comb or whatever) so many pages is tedious/boring/time consuming and the toner isn't free....cheaper sometimes to buy the originals.

 

[Milacron]

As best I can figure the user interface was programmed via Symbolic FAPT Macro, and the screen colors are determined by the G240 codes specified therein.

/*
@COLOR    G240    /*    Display color select.
@BLACK    G240P0    /*    Black.
@RED    G240P1    /*    Red.
@GREEN    G240P2    /*    Green.
@YELLOW    G240P3    /*    Yellow.
@BLUE    G240P4    /*    Blue.
@PERPLE    G240P5    /*    Perple.
@SKYBL    G240P6    /*    Sky–blue.
@WHITE    G240P7    /*    White.
@REDR    G240P–1    /*    Reverse    Red.
@GREENR    G240P–2    /*    Reverse    Green.
@YELLOWR    G240P–3    /*    Reverse    Yellow.
@BLUER    G240P–4    /*    Reverse    Blue.
@PERPLER    G240P–5    /*    Reverse    Perple.
@SKYBLR    G240P–6    /*    Reverse    Sky–blue.

I wonder if there would be a way to program the colors such that that background is light rather than black ? i.e. to look more like a modern control.... I saw a pair of 1998 Robodrills with Fanuc 16i once that had black background on the LCD and yet every other Fanuc 16i 1998 or newer has light background, which makes me wonder if that background can't be manipulated somehow.