Lucas horizontal floor mill spindle retrofit

[dkmc]

I'm a bit confused.
So the machine spindle is cat 50 and the adapter is morse.....?
I thought you meant the spindle is morse and the adapter takes cat tooling?
I read it to be the opposite. It's really not clear from that picture.

I'm really interested because I have a machine that's MT5 and I'd like to be
able to use NMTB50 tooling with it but don't think there is such an adapter made.

 

[PDW]

View attachment 163365
Here is the adapter. Morse taper spindle with a wedge lock. CAT tooling goes in and couple turns of a allen wrench pulls tool into adapter. Thanks for everybodys help but I dont seem to be getting any closer to an answer to my question.

That's because getting decent information from you is bloody difficult.

Post pictures of the broken bits.

Describe things accurately - what you have, as best I can tell, is a HORIZONTAL BORING MILL not a floor mill or some other vague description. But I could be wrong because you haven't given anyone good information!!!

FWIW I think you have some form of Herbert type Flash Change adaptor to take Cat tooling into a Morse adaptor. The *ONLY* reason I think this is, because I have one for my HBM and it's the best match for your vague descriptions.

So POST PICTURES of what you have and give decent full information. And do us all a favour - check the orientation of the picture before you post it.

You came here for help, whining about how you're not getting what you want is right on you for not providing proper information.

PDW

 

[PDW]

I'm really interested because I have a machine that's MT5 and I'd like to be
able to use NMTB50 tooling with it but don't think there is such an adapter made.

Maybe not 50 taper but there definitely is/was for 40 taper tooling. I have one - 5 Morse to 40 taper with cam type lock to retain the 40 taper tooling. This type of 40 taper tooling has a scoop out of one side for the cam to pull it back into the socket, doesn't stop it being used in a normal 40 taper spindle.

PDW

 

[alskdjfhg]

What is a "floor" mill?

"Floor type" is the name for a BIG boring mill. A 6" machine is built different than a 3".

Floor types have the has traversing spindle, whole column the spindle is on moves. There is no "table" on a floor type like there is on a "table" type ie smaller machines.

 

[sable]

I think he is talking about a travelling column borer AKA floor borer ,doesn't really matter that much .What confuses me is that surely to convert to a Morse taper would need a new spindle or perhaps shorten the existing spindle and re machine to a Morse ,either way a big job as it will be hard but I guess doable.

 

[JRIowa]

I know its a step backwards and I do not expect anything to be free, I dont know why you would say that?

Because I don't know where you are on money. Somewhere between free and $20 K.

If you want to do just a manual change, just remove all of the rest of the stuff from the inside of the spindle and make your own drawbar with a 1-8 UNC tread on the end. Remove the pull studs from the holders and you're set. You could even make a longer drawbar and use CAT50 holders.

Now, you have been kinda hard on everybody that's tried to help. Nowhere in your first post did you say that you wanted a manual tool change. You did say that you wanted to fix the power drawbar. So lighten up and quit the bitching. The friggin help here is free.
JR

 

[Greg Adams]

What do you need information on?!? I don't need to know anything about the adapter I have because I already have the d&@$ thing. Do you not know what a floor mill is? The question was has anyone replaced the spindle in a Lucas horizontal mill with a morse taper. What kind of description do you need?????? Someone has or they haven't. I don't care what kind of tooling you use or what you like. I want a morse taper and I just want to know if anyone has done it before. You can stick that whine up your a$$. The only reason I posted a picture of the adapter is because someone asked to see it, it does t have anything to do with what I am asking

 

[Greg Adams]

Please show me where I have been hard on anyone? Other than that last post of course! I want to replace my spindle with a Morse taper, that is all!!! Running a piece of all thread through the spindle will not work. If it was that simple it would be running now.

 

[Ziggy2]

There were alot of worn parts in the drawbar system. We do have another mill with a morse taper spindle and a CAT 50 adapter which is what I wanted to go to with this mill. We wont be spending $20,000 for a power draw! The spindle is out of the machine and I looked at it briefly and thought it looked like a fairly simple swap to a morse taper so we could use the apapter in it. These are schematics, I will get pics soon.
View attachment 163269View attachment 163270

We used to have four Lucas mills at work until we got rid of them. They all had Morse taper spindles and all of the spindles were solid except for the Morse taper and the wedge lock slot. I don't think Lucas ever made a Morse taper spindle that was bored out for a draw bar system. My point is that with what you currently have, you are not going to be able to do what you want directly, convert to a Morse taper.

If you want to do this on the cheap and be satisfied with a completely manual tool change, you could remove the hydraulic draw bar piston and components and replace it with a long draw bar that extends all the way to the opposite end of the tool end. Add a thrust bearing cap and some sort of hex nut for easy tightening and you will be able to hold the tool in for cheap. This would be a lot like the Bridgeport draw bar system and probably more awkward.

I do have a hard time understanding how the existing draw bar system could have that much wrong with it. Is the $20,000 for a retrofit kit to update it? The existing system does not have that many parts to it. The most difficult to make parts would be the draw knob jaws. These could probably be gotten from a current design and vendor, then modified to fit your application. The rest of the parts are relatively simple.

 

[Greg Adams]

Thank you Sable you have been helpful. It is a Horizontal boring mill. I don't think I would want to remachine the existing spindle that does sound expensive. I would like to find a spindle with a morse taper and put in mine but I don't know if all Lucas machines are equal? If they will interchange

 

[Greg Adams]

I think this post got lost when someone asked about the adapter we have for another mill. The other mill is morse taper and has an adapter to accept CAT 50. The machine in question is NMTB spindle and I want to put a morse taper spindle in it so we can use an adapter like on the other mill, or even use the morse taper. Either way the drawbar is gone. The quote was from Lucas, I'm sure it could be done cheaper but even half of what Lucas said is more than I wanted to spend on this paticar mill

 

[PDW]

Thank you Sable you have been helpful. It is a Horizontal boring mill. I don't think I would want to remachine the existing spindle that does sound expensive. I would like to find a spindle with a morse taper and put in mine but I don't know if all Lucas machines are equal? If they will interchange

Which is why it would be really helpful if you posted PHOTOS of the machine especially photos of its manufacturer's plate - if any - giving the details of the machine model, serial number, variant etc etc. None of which you've provided.

Your question is akin to asking one like 'I have a Ford car. I want to change the engine. Has anyone done this before and if so, how?'

The devil is ALWAYS in the detail.

And, BTW, you came here for free help. If you don't want to give information in return for getting information, you're a taker, not a contributor. Go and pay someone if you don't want to contribute, this place works on people giving as well as asking.

FWIW I think you've no hope of finding a spindle that will swap over cleanly and cheaply. My Kearns O type HBM - a lot smaller than what you're talking about - has its spindle honed to fit its bushings. Swapping it over would require a complete teardown of the entire spindle frame assembly and replacement bushings, or honing out the existing ones, probably hard chroming the replacement spindle back to size or oversize to fit to honed bushings etc etc. It wouldn't be fast & it wouldn't be cheap.

I'm with JR. Rip out the power drawbar stuff and use a manual one. This is one hell of a lot simpler than swapping out a spindle with a 50 taper nose for one with a Morse taper nose so you can then use a MT5-50 taper adaptor which gets you back to using 50 taper tooling. Which you could do right now if you either fixed what's broken or replaced it all with a manual drawbar.

I'm done with this anyway, do what you like. I think you're one of those types that are too high maintenance to be worth the time.

PDW

 

[Greg Adams]

I'm a bit confused.
So the machine spindle is cat 50 and the adapter is morse.....?
I thought you meant the spindle is morse and the adapter takes cat tooling?
I read it to be the opposite. It's really not clear from that picture.


I'm really interested because I have a machine that's MT5 and I'd like to be
able to use NMTB50 tooling with it but don't think there is such an adapter made.

If you would like some info on the adapter message me and I will see what I can find. Seem to be confusing talking about this adapter on this post. The machine I posted about is not using this adapter

 

[Greg Adams]

Which is why it would be really helpful if you posted PHOTOS of the machine especially photos of its manufacturer's plate - if any - giving the details of the machine model, serial number, variant etc etc. None of which you've provided.

Your question is akin to asking one like 'I have a Ford car. I want to change the engine. Has anyone done this before and if so, how?'

The devil is ALWAYS in the detail.

And, BTW, you came here for free help. If you don't want to give information in return for getting information, you're a taker, not a contributor. Go and pay someone if you don't want to contribute, this place works on people giving as well as asking.

FWIW I think you've no hope of finding a spindle that will swap over cleanly and cheaply. My Kearns O type HBM - a lot smaller than what you're talking about - has its spindle honed to fit its bushings. Swapping it over would require a complete teardown of the entire spindle frame assembly and replacement bushings, or honing out the existing ones, probably hard chroming the replacement spindle back to size or oversize to fit to honed bushings etc etc. It wouldn't be fast & it wouldn't be cheap.

I'm with JR. Rip out the power drawbar stuff and use a manual one. This is one hell of a lot simpler than swapping out a spindle with a 50 taper nose for one with a Morse taper nose so you can then use a MT5-50 taper adaptor which gets you back to using 50 taper tooling. Which you could do right now if you either fixed what's broken or replaced it all with a manual drawbar.

I'm done with this anyway, do what you like. I think you're one of those types that are too high maintenance to be worth the time.

PDW[
What's up with this guy^^^ if there is anyone on here that has ever replaced a spindle on a Lucas horizontal mill please contact me. NO drama please

 

[Ziggy2]

I think this post got lost when someone asked about the adapter we have for another mill. The other mill is morse taper and has an adapter to accept CAT 50. The machine in question is NMTB spindle and I want to put a morse taper spindle in it so we can use an adapter like on the other mill, or even use the morse taper. Either way the drawbar is gone. The quote was from Lucas, I'm sure it could be done cheaper but even half of what Lucas said is more than I wanted to spend on this paticar mill

If all you want is a Morse taper spindle, then I would suggest that you go find a machine with one in it, buy the whole machine and swap out the machines.

Lucas had quite a few variations on their boring bars. A lot of common parts but also a lot of parts specific to the particular head the machine had and particular options. Swapping a spindle out of the quill won't work since they were fit to each other. The draw bar spindle will have extra "stuff" in the head that the Morse taper spindles do not. This in itself will make a swap problematic.

It seems to me that you are either stuck with trying to cobble together what you have or else find a different machine. To get where you want to go is not easy.

Only one of our Lucas's went for much money and that was because of it's size. Two went for slightly more than scrap and one I had to actually scrap myself because no one wanted it. They all had Morse taper spindles and was the primary reason we got rid of them.

 

[Greg Adams]

If all you want is a Morse taper spindle, then I would suggest that you go find a machine with one in it, buy the whole machine and swap out the machines.

Lucas had quite a few variations on their boring bars. A lot of common parts but also a lot of parts specific to the particular head the machine had and particular options. Swapping a spindle out of the quill won't work since they were fit to each other. The draw bar spindle will have extra "stuff" in the head that the Morse taper spindles do not. This in itself will make a swap problematic.

It seems to me that you are either stuck with trying to cobble together what you have or else find a different machine. To get where you want to go is not easy.

Only one of our Lucas's went for much money and that was because of it's size. Two went for slightly more than scrap and one I had to actually scrap myself because no one wanted it. They all had Morse taper spindles and was the primary reason we got rid of them.

It's been a good machine for a LONG time! I've ran it off and on for 20 years now and been here for 20 before me and I really think a lot of life left in it. Would you happen to know where someone might find a spindle or even a scrap machine? I don't usually deal in parts but I don't want to see this machine go yet but can't bring myself to drop that kind of money in it

 

[Ziggy2]

It's been a good machine for a LONG time! I've ran it off and on for 20 years now and been here for 20 before me and I really think a lot of life left in it. Would you happen to know where someone might find a spindle or even a scrap machine? I don't usually deal in parts but I don't want to see this machine go yet but can't bring myself to drop that kind of money in it

I suspect that you will have a very difficult time in trying to find A Lucas with a Morse taper spindle of your current size. The NMTB spindles were much more desirable which means most of the Morse taper machines where either melted down, shredded, or else exported to China, India, Vietnam.

 

[dkmc]

If you would like some info on the adapter message me and I will see what I can find. Seem to be confusing talking about this adapter on this post. The machine I posted about is not using this adapter

Private Message SENT

 

[RC99]

Maybe it is a government shop. That is why the repair quote is $20 000

You know, like Nasa and their $5000 hammers.

 

[sable]

Not sure why some feel the need to attack newcomers ,I got the jist of what he wanted to know just needed a few more details ,I don't think knowing the exact machine was that important ,a better way of asking the question would have been "has anyone swapped a 50 taper spindle bar for a Morse taper one" answer it is highly unlikely that one would fit assuming you can even find one.

On edit ,after re reading the original post that is exactly what he did ask and even gave the model number of the machine!

If this job is to be done right by the original manufacturer I would think $20000 sounds a fair price ,this is a huge machine, the idea of swapping this machine for another is ridiculous and would probably cost more than $20000 just in transport rigging levelling and alignment even if a machine could be bought for scrap ,and chances are that "new" machine would have a host of other problems.

If the OP does not have the capabilities in house he needs to find a smaller outfit who can re engineer the existing drawbar or come up with a manual replacement.