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  1. #1641
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    I will add.

    Remember that in this case, ventilation isn't done as a rescue scenario because there is trauma elsewhere, where you can pop up an 85 to 98 while docs work on fixing the rest.

    From my understanding, ventilation is done for two main reasons. One is because it maintains PEEP, which keeps the alveoli ready to exchange oxygen, and less likely to get stiff like a raisin, full of puss, unable to move. The other reason, it gives the body a rest and conserves energy. A patient that is fighting to breath has a ton of shit going on, from anxiety to exhaustion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    Most of the "ventilator shortage" actually seems to be based on very dramatic predictions that have already been scaled back by their author in London.
    Not sure how many in your family have caught it yet, I hope it’s none. Different kind of dramatic all together if that happens. It’s not your $1B. Think they’re not worth that?

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    What next?

    EPA stops enforcing environmental rules, citing coronavirus pandemic - Business Insider

    Can I dump nuclear waste now to Madison Square?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jancollc View Post
    More often he says one thing too many times.

    Our alternative is Biden, who can't even manage to say something the first time.

    Helluva choice.
    I think Trump won because so many could not stand Clinton. Janie rarely makes comment but she said that she could never vote for Clinton...Biden would have done better last time around not this time, I think he (Biden) lost it...and the Hunter thing lost much of his credits. What a dope he was to brag about getting that guy fired, JPS (just plane stupid).made him look like a bozo.

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  8. #1645
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    Quote Originally Posted by jancollc View Post
    It is hard to take you seriously when you say you are not being political, and in the very same sentence characterize the reason for the restrictions as keeping out "dirty foreigners". . ..
    My take on this pretty early was that our chief executive didn't know much about viruses or pandemics and just wanted to (and did) blame others.

    And Trump himself is big on calling any thing and anyone in opposition as "dirty." Impeachment, Mike Bloomberg, his own FBI, every other country in the Paris climate accords, liberal parts of our country - all "dirty." Apparently one of his favorite words.

    Back in 2016 he was courting the anti-vaccinination crowd I'm thinking, he's either pandering or doesn't understand. Early in the Wall thing he descirbed it as not just keeping murderers and rapists out, but diseases as well. This is the guy who says all the doctors wonder how he knows so much.

    He was apparently either fine or ignorant about the effects of dismantling some of our vaccine research or losing 20 of the 30 people from his administration who were briefed on pandemic threats in 2017. Later, the wall was going to help with viruses and then it was the Chinese and European's fault -- without apparently considering transmission from our own citizens abroad. We certainly didn't take the sort of steps anyone with half an understanding of things going, um, viral might insist upon.

    To me, that describes someone who thinks the virus is an "other" problem and can be stopped - you know down to near zero in a couple days - by identifying who's to blame and excluding them from the country. That blame game went from it's a liberal hoax, to China's problem, to a reason for the Wall, to Europeans, to a problem of the press asking bad questions. Get rid of them, we'll be fine. Meanwhile, "I take no responsibility."

    He's still at it: “Border security is also health security, and you’ve all seen the wall has gone up like magic.” While the above is history, going forward it will be useful to have fact-based leadership and resources at the Federal level. Reprising the wall and telling governors they're on their own ain't it.

    So, yeah, I do think that Trump either believes some dirty "other" is the problem or is just using that to whip up support. That might read as "infammatory rhetoric" to you, but to me it is a failure of what should be common sense. With a pandemic like this there are multiple vectors, and it's not just Chinese, Europeans, and Mexicans but the millions of US citizens out and about in the world (including Trump supporters at, say, CPAC) that need to be part of the solution.

    We might agree on some issues. We need both a sensible immigration policy and a secure border. There's too great a burden, perhaps especially at the local and state level on small businesses. But we surely seem to differ on evaluating our chief executive's handling of the coronavirus. While it is apparently darn near perfect to you, to me it has smacked of ignorance and self-serving lies from the beginning. I respect your views on lots of topics, but on this one think you're going with the tribe rather than the actual events.

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    {not being political, ]
    sorry my bad also being /talking political ..lets get back to grinding...no, Corona..

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    Quote Originally Posted by jancollc View Post
    I see Texas has placed restrictions on people coming from NY,NJ,CT, and New Orleans. 2 weeks self-isolation for everyone.

    Think Seattle and LA are on the list too.
    Here we are complaining about many from NY who are here now avoiding the Corona virus. Everyone loves to move here to Florida . It does not have much cold weather and South of Jaxsonville and Tallahassee it is milder winters. Air conditioning is important yet many older natives do not always use them except a exception might be window units.


    Also the Spring Break crowd were here in full force welcomed with open arms. Those not directly benefitted were shocked that it continued allowing the spread of the virus in good likelihood to the whole country when the students returned home.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeteM View Post
    I'd like to make a suggestion - no more "righties" and "lefties" to describe anyone here. Reserve it for things like drill twist.

    While there is surely a lot of partisanship and tribalism around these days, pretty sure that none of us on PM would be a cartoon "left" or cartoon "right" in every possible way. We might make a bit more progress just identifying problems, outlining solutions and, as needed, pointing out the missed facts, additional considerations, better solutions etc. along the way?
    Yep and stop all the attacking of candidates right?

    That has not lasted so far.

    Actually the cartoons actually are consistently funny no matter who you are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeteM View Post
    My take on this pretty early was that our chief executive didn't know much about viruses or pandemics and just want to blame others on this one.

    Back in 2016 he was courting the anti-vaccinination crowd I'm thinking, he's either pandering or doesn't understand. Early in the Wall thing he descirbed it as not just keeping murderers and rapists out, but diseases as well.

    He was apparently either fine or ignorant about the effects of dismantling some of our vaccine research or losing 20 of the 30 people from his administration who were briefed on pandemic threats in 2017. Later, the wall was going to help with viruses and then it was the Chinese and European's fault -- without apparently considering transmission from our own citizens abroad. We certainly didn't take the sort of steps anyone with half an understanding of things going, um, viral might insist upon.

    To me, that describes someone who thinks the virus is an "other" problem and can be stopped - you know down to near zero in a couple days - by identifying who's to blame and excluding them from the country. That blame game went from it's a liberal hoax, to China's problem, to a reason for the Wall, to Europeans. Get rid of them, we'll be fine. Someone who might say "I take no responsibility."

    For example, a recent quote on stopping COVID-19: “Border security is also health security, and you’ve all seen the wall has gone up like magic.”

    So, yeah, I do think that Trump either believes some dirty "other" is the problem or is just using that to whip up support. That might read as "infammatory rhetoric" to you, but to me it is a failure of what should be common sense. With a pandemic like this there are multiple vectors, and it's not just Chinese, Europeans, and Mexicans but the millions of US citizens out and about in the world (including Trump supporters at, say, CPAC) that need to be part of the solution.
    Well Pete, that is a rationalization, but it does not speak to my post.

    If your wish is for people to be less political, you can begin by setting an example.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jancollc View Post
    Well Pete, that is a rationalization, but it does not speak to my post.

    If your wish is for people to be less political, you can begin by setting an example.

    That's not a rationalization. It's a list of events and statements backing up the notion that our administration treated this as a "dirty other" problem -- and thus failed to take numerous sensible steps to limit this pandemic's spread. To the extent we keep blaming others, we're ignoring rather than accepting responsibility for taking sensible steps in the days and weeks ahead.

    If there's an example to be set - hope it's one in starting with problems as they actually exist, then hearing out solutions from progressive, conservative, and in this case especially scientifically literate corners of the world.

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    I've always regarded The Guardian as a reliable but boring newspaper.

    Trump's narcissism has taken a new twist. And now he has American blood on his hands

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trueturning View Post
    Yep and stop all the attacking of candidates right?

    . ..
    I'm fine with any factual jibes at candidates (the election still a ways off BTW). Just don't think we should be calling each other names. Calling out the facts, great. Examples:

    - Hey, you left a key in the chuck. That could be dangerous.

    - Hey, we're not letting Italians in, but kids coming back from school in Italy aren't being properly tested. That could be dangerous.

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    0b8318e6-7264-42c7-a66c-41abebbc612c.jpg


    .................

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    Very likely trump never ran a surface grinder or even a lathe, he would thread upside down starting from the tail and then blame Biden for the scrap..and no onions on burgers... so "trow da bum out."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    0b8318e6-7264-42c7-a66c-41abebbc612c.jpg


    .................
    When / if that makes top and then humps to start gong down..We all have to work for that...It took China a time so I hope we can do the same.
    This is about how the China graph looked.. see decline.

    china graph of virus - Yahoo Image Search Results

  23. #1656
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trueturning View Post
    . Everyone loves to move here to Florida .
    Florida sucks in the summer. You need AC everywhere and don't want to mow the lawn after 9 AM.
    How do you live in that, plus you never see snow.
    Really, no snowman in the front yard? No skiing, no sledding and you probably don't now what a snowmobile is.
    A snowmobile is like a wave runner out on the ocean but so much better.
    Yes you do not get to ride with a dolphin pod here or have them wake surf on the boat or smaller you which is crazy fun.
    I do so much love Daytona and the other side south tip around Naples when not crowded with nutso but.....
    Not meaning to be bad or prissy to you or our members in the area. Different strokes, we all have a like.
    Florida great, Michigan maybe neat

    Us up north come to Florida often to visit or vacation, few do the opposite.
    It is only 20 to 24 hours in the car.
    Bob

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    trumps religious whacko CDC head blows response by screwing with alternative tests that didn't work

    Who Is Robert Redfield, Trump’s Pick for CDC Director? - The Atlantic


    trumski DID disband the biodefense strategy team

    Coronavirus: Trump’s botched response, explained - Vox

    "In April 2018, Bolton fired Tom Bossert, then the homeland security adviser, who, the Washington Post reported, “had called for a comprehensive biodefense strategy against pandemics and biological attacks.” Then, that May, Bolton let go the head of pandemic response, Rear Adm. Timothy Ziemer, and his global health security team. The team, the Directorate for Global Health Security and Biodefense, was never replaced.

    In the months before the coronavirus outbreak, the administration cut a public health position that was meant to help detect disease outbreaks in China, where the pandemic began, Marisa Taylor reported for Reuters.
    "
    Great, cut the bureaucracy, oh, until turns out we needed them

    quote from National Review:

    [Trump] resisted making the response to the epidemic a priority for as long as he could — refusing briefings, downplaying the problem, and wasting precious time. He has failed to properly empower his subordinates and refused to trust the information they provided him — often offering up unsubstantiated claims and figures from cable television instead. He has spoken about the crisis in crude political and personal terms. He has stood in the way of public understanding of the plausible course of the epidemic, trafficking instead in dismissive clichés. He has denied his administration’s missteps, making it more difficult to address them.


    complete FAIL in screening at airports:

    7-Hour Waits at U.S. Airports Due to Coronavirus Screening - The New York Times
    Travelers From Coronavirus Hot Spots Say They Faced No Screening - The New York Times

    Ex-passenger tested positive for coronavirus, but '''thousands''' left cruise ship without screening: report | Fox News

    putting screening workers themselves at risk
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...-idUSKBN20V00T

    https://www.businessinsider.com/whis...raining-2020-2

    Its a failure, it has meant more people sick and more people dying

    and it is on trump

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    Florida sucks in the summer. You need AC everywhere and don't want to mow the lawn after 9 AM.
    How do you live in that, plus you never see snow.
    Really, no snowman in the front yard? No skiing, no sledding and you probably don't now what a snowmobile is.
    A snowmobile is like a wave runner out on the ocean but much better.
    I do so much love Daytona and the other side south tip but.......
    Bob
    Florida sucks any day,

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    The places that have done well, South Korea, Singapore, Taiwan

    Screening[not necessarily travel bans per se]

    testing testing testing from day one

    WE had access to the same tests they did

    Testing and following the chain of connections to track down infected people


    but no, he is 'not responsible'

    It is 'under control'

    It is 'just like the flu'

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