1955 10EE with WiaD drive

[lenmann]

moved from thread:

10EE ad, 1959 American Machinist

I've been reading through old issues of American Machinist on archive.org, and saving interesting stuff. This Monarch ad is from February of 1959.

www.practicalmachinist.com

It's quite possible that my recently acquired 1955 10EE is in the ad picture.

 

[Cal Haines]

Please post a few overall photos of your machine.

 

[lenmann]

Please post a few overall photos of your machine.

As noted above she's a 1955 10EE originally sold to Hughes Aircraft in Culver City CA. I purchased it from I believe to be the second owner who used it mostly as a second op machine until the drive started acting up several years ago. His plan was to convert it to a AC motor/VFD but he never got around to it so the machine has been idle for a while and taking up space in his busy machine shop. It has the original WIAD drive system that would trip the 50 amp breaker every other time he went to use it. Oddly it has a 2500 rpm tachometer while the order sheet says it was configured as 4000 rpm machine.

Overall it's in pretty good condition with nice ways and one repaint. It came with a 3 jaw chuck, 4 jaw chuck, 5C collet closers, steady rest, complete taper attachment, assorted tool holders, and a 230-460 volt transformer.

As you can see it fit nicely in the back of my pickup truck making the transport from Los Angeles to home in Northern CA pretty easy. I was in LA for a car show anyway so the timing was pretty good. The only downside was a the atmospheric river that visited that weekend hence the blue tarp shrink wrap treatment.

I run a 10hp rotary phase converter here in my home shop and have yet to wire it up to the transformer and 10EE. I need to do that to determine next steps on the drive. I have been poring through the many threads here on PM just trying to get educated on what the next steps may be. The 10EE will displace the LeBlond Servo Shift I have now so reliability is pretty important to me.

Sorry to derail the OP's thread here, I will start a separate build thread once I get my bearings.

 

[Cal Haines]

Thanks for the photos.
I can move your posts to a new thread; let me know if you're ready now.

 

[lenmann]

Thanks for the photos.
I can move your posts to a new thread; let me know if you're ready now.

That would be great, thank you.

 

[rke[pler]

Nice looking machine.

If the lathe was tripping a 50A breaker I'd look for something simple just past the power contactor. You could start by disconnecting most of the wiring on the lathe side of the PC and look for a short to ground on any wire, the lathe is 60 years old and that wiring is fragile. I expect that you can find the fault pretty quickly that way.

 

[Cal Haines]

Part of the problem may be the large, external step-up transformer. The current inrush when powering one of those up is substantial. Try to locate it as close to the circuit breaker panel as possible.

I'm not a tube-drive expert, but the WiaD diagrams that I have indicate that the MASSIVE TR#3586 anode transformer in the back of the drawer is dual voltage, that is, it can be wired for either 220 or 440 operation, as can the other anode transformer. It's the two small filament transformers that are 440 only, and they are what's keeping you from converting the machine to 220. Note that the drive itself is single-phase and the only thing that needs 3-phase power is the coolant pump, if installed.

If I was in your situation, I would look into eliminating the large, external 220-440 step-up transformer. In theory, 240 single-phase could be brought directly to the machine, both anode transformers could be rewired for 220, and a smaller 220-440 step-up transformer could be installed in the base to provide power to the filament transformers. Another option is to find someone that's scrapping a WiaD drive and has the 220 transformers.

Also be aware that the first thing you need to do with a WiaD drive is to check the filament transformer voltages. If it's out of range it will adversely affect tube life. The voltage is adjusted by changing the taps on the filament transformers.

 

[Mr_CNC_guy]

Anyone who has the Scissio's solid state replacements will have the filament transformers that they don't need.

 

[Cal Haines]

That only covers the filament transformer for the C16Js. There are eight other tubes that need the other filament transformer. I talked to Tim about WiaD drives a while back and he doesn't have anything for the rest of the tubes. Or are you saying that filament transformers from a modular drive would work? The transformer for the smaller tubes has 3 secondaries and is a fairly complex bit of iron and copper.

 

[daryl bane]

My 59 was a Navy machine and all the transformers except the two small filament? transformers were able to be "re-strapped to 220V. I bought a set from Electra-print, but I think these are now unicorns. These are located on the back of the first WIAD panel. Now mine had what maybe a special Navy filament transformer just opposite of the two small filament? transformers in the WIAD tombstone. This transformer was able to be restrapped to a myriad of different voltages. I would suggest to get a copy of the works record with a schematic of your exact machine. I have mine hooked up to 20A #10, over 25ft. and have never tripped a breaker. BTW, my Tree mill came from Hughes in Culver City. You are lucky it wasn't repainted "baby blue". I was told (probably BS) that "baby blue" was Howard Hughes favorite color.

 

[Cal Haines]

All of the WiaD diagrams that I have show multi-tap filament transformers to allow for a variety of input voltages from 200 to 230 VAC or 400 to 460 VAC, depending on whether the drive has the 220 or 440 transformer set.

This photo shows the filament transformers:

The transformer on the top (TR3662) is the anode transformer for the smaller tubes. The two transformers below that are the filament transformers. The one on the bottom has 3 secondaries for the various small tube's filaments. The one it the middle has its secondaries tied together to act as a single secondary for the C16J's filaments.

The primary windings of both filament transformers are brought out as a bundle of color-coded wires. Two of the wires are connected to line voltage terminals L1 and L2; the rest are left together in an insulated bundle. To change primary voltages, you swap out the primary wire connected to the L2 terminal with the correct wire from the bundle, based on L1-L2 voltage.

 

[daryl bane]

The two on the right are the ones I replaced with the Electra-Print ones. The ones that were there when I got the machine were actually correct replacements for the Modular machines, but did not work on a WIAD. Obviously somebody had been in there and had tried to diagnose the issues, but replaced with what they thought might work. I restrapped the big one on top per schematic but don't remember how I wired those two below it. I see that I identified those wires and labelled them, so I might have had to restrap those as well. I had to rewire the entire unit as the wires were falling apart. Glad I don't have to do it again.

 

[Cal Haines]

The diagrams call those "grid transformers", one for the armature circuit and one for the field. I'm not enough of a tube guy to know what those do, but they seem to have something to do with the firing circuits for the thyratrons.

 

[daryl bane]

I think you are correct. I remember that if you put them backwards the big C16J 's would blink.