Bastard file -name origin?

[Darren McCarley]

Was perusing "Audels Machinist and Tool Makers Handy Book" and came across this anecdote. I figured yall might enjoy it.

 

[sfriedberg]

I'm no authority, but I figured it was from the same route that gave us "bastard sword" or épée bâtarde for something sized between a two-handed long sword and a short sword.

 

[Asquith]

As sfriedberg says.

Why should something that is simply an intermediate grade be credited as an invention by anybody, and credited to a named individual?

The word bastard has long had a variety of uses, including 'intermediate'. 'Bastard size' is still used today. I have seen a 1767 advert for bricks - fine stock, bastard stock, and common bricks.

Incidentally, here's a 1703 reference to bastard files:-

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...oECAcQAw#v=onepage&q="baftard" "file"&f=false

 

[aandabooks]

When mommy file steel and daddy file steel got together outside the bounds of matrimony they create a bastard file steel. That is where bastard files come from.

 

[rivett608]

I have read a lot about the history of files and their names. I have never seen this before. I wonder if it just so English author trying to credit one his countrymen? The definition I have seen over and over is the bastard file is in between fine and course, it is of neither.

 

[Georgineer]

... I wonder if it just so English author trying to credit one his countrymen? ...

Given that Audel's 'Handy' books were published by Theo. Audel & Co., 49 W 23rd St., New York, U.S.A., I think that's unlikely.

I believe it's an example of 'etymythology' where people make up explanations that sound as though they might be convincing, such as the fanciful explanations one hears for 'raining cats and dogs', 'sleep tight', 'threshold', 'sirloin of beef' and so on. I must admit to having made up a few myself, usually to poke fun at other people's efforts.

As for the file name, my father was always very proper in his speech and would not utter the word bastard, so when he was obliged to refer to it, he called it a bustard file. Plenty of scope there for the etymythologists!

George

 

[Darren McCarley]

Some interesting insight. Obviously, the actual origin is lost to time. However, I can see where a cultural exchange could cause a misnomer. Equally, I can see the logic in the "not course" and "not fine".
I've always found etymology to be fascinating. Thanks for contributing to my curiosity!

 

[enginebill]

I don't know where the name bastard came from for files but it definitely did not originate from someone named Barsted. The earliest reference that I could find was from 1693, printed in London so that makes the name native to England.

Here is the reference.

Mechanick exercises: or The doctrine of handy-works. Applied to the art of bricklayers-work

books.google.com

Interestingly, I found that description of filing printed word for word for at least 150 years in different publications.

 

[rivett608]

I completely forgot it was mentioned in Moxon.

 

[JST]

There are standard sizes for certain items, and then there are non-standard, or "bastard" sizes.

Makes plenty of sense that a file type that was originally non-standard would be termed a "bastard" type.

 

[Robert Lang]

There are standard sizes for certain items, and then there are non-standard, or "bastard" sizes.

Makes plenty of sense that a file type that was originally non-standard would be termed a "bastard" type.

Bastard refers to the coarseness of the cut and not the size of the file. Two different things.

Rob

 

[JST]

Bastard refers to the coarseness of the cut and not the size of the file. Two different things.

Rob

I am well aware of that..........And you will note that "sizes" referred to "other things" and "types" referred to files. The "bastard sizes" was simply an example (and the most common case) of using the term.......

There are standard sizes for certain items, and then there are non-standard, or "bastard" sizes.

Makes plenty of sense that a file type that was originally non-standard would be termed a "bastard" type.