OT - vanishing threads

[Greg Menke]

The problem with recovering deleted but not erased items is the the disk pages that held the data of the item data can be recycled at random, so damage accumulates, especially if one is running low on disk space.

Well I use six months for my "Temporary" file, which gets everything ephemeral including spam, and six months to a year works for me. PM may choose a different retention period.

Moving spam et al to a hidden forum for aging as @eKretz suggests sounds like a good approach. Experience will tell us the smallest practical retention period. The retention period should be set to twice this, to cover edge cases.

I am a moderator in another forum which saves spam. There isn't much value in saving it long-term since the campaigns are generally not imaginative. The techniques vary, sometimes they get clever and use methods tailored to the forum software but after a few cases the moderators get wise to it. The most recent campaign involves embedding particularly designed URL links so they are invisible to a viewer but only show up when the spam post is responded to. They tipped their hand because they don't really understand the forum's subject matter so their responses are stilted and vague and moderators investigated.

The technique we use to manage spam is similar to what is used here; an instant ban on the user and remove all their posts. We did modify the analytics software to examine new posts and flag any which use the fancy spam coding so moderators can look at them immediately.

We have found short-term value in saving the spam vs deletion because sometimes it is necessary to study how it is formatted to characterize the style of campaign and be prepared to identify such posts. But anything more than a few weeks old might as well be deleted for all the use it is. Disk space is a lot cheaper than moderator bandwidth.

OTOH we have found substantial value in folders for troubled and/or troublesome users, where their moderated posts are stored. It lets us observe the user's posting trends and try to understand what is causing the difficulty. Sometimes its periodic benders, sometimes they have apparent manic/depressive cycles that are imperfectly managed. It is helpful to observe their personality long-term because when they have lucid or civil periods then their posts are more likely to be accepted for the forum. Sometimes the only thing to do with users of this type is manage their impact on the forum- sometimes it seems an art-form for a user to constantly be on the edge of banning but never quite badly enough for the mods to pull the ban trigger.

 

[UptownSport]

Move (non spam) verboten stuff to un modded forum.
Seriously.
If people want to go to keyboard war over 'Ross Perot, deep state shill' 'No he's not'
let 'em go at it.

 

[PDW]

Move (non spam) verboten stuff to un modded forum.
Seriously.
If people want to go to keyboard war over 'Ross Perot, deep state shill' 'No he's not'
let 'em go at it.

100% agree - let them go for it big-time.

Somewhere else.

PDW

 

[EmGo]

Sometimes ... sometimes ... sometimes

And sometimes it's a bullshit moderator, e.g. jaguar36, who lets anyone say whatever they want, as long as they agree with him. But get two or three opposing views and it's "I'll have to shut this down" -- didn't pull that out my rear, you can go look at his russia thread which should not exist.

Which is why I am a believer in no political stuff.

However, I amn't god

p.s. none of the threads that were lost had any great significance, it's okay for blabla but who really cares how tall the ceiling is ? It's like I dropped a quarter yesterday, should I spend all week looking for it ?

p.p.s. the pseudo-race car guy did get upset enough to scream nasty words at me in a pm for saying real drivers don't need that shit but since the thread was lost, may as well go on a illustrative tangent here

Some years ago somebody made a movie about Indy car racing. The movie was so-so but they did a great job of camerawork. Don't know if they used the original cinerama cameras or three side-by-side then blended but it was some really good camera action. To get it, they bought a three year old champ car and got permission to actually run it in races and on-track for practice etc. And to drive it they had to get a real driver, so they hired mario.

Camera rig was several hundred pounds on a big framework behind the driver, sort of a hindrance. The trouble was, mario outqualified his kid at least once, and during one race was running third and about to go for second when they had to tell him over the radio to cool it, this would look bad. Seems like he didn't need the newest gizmos

 

[technocrat]

And sometimes it's a bullshit moderator, e.g. jaguar36, who lets anyone say whatever they want, as long as they agree with him. But get two or three opposing views and it's "I'll have to shut this down" -- didn't pull that out my rear, you can go look at his russia thread which should not exist.

Which is why I am a believer in no political stuff.

However, I amn't god

p.s. none of the threads that were lost had any great significance, it's okay for blabla but who really cares how tall the ceiling is ? It's like I dropped a quarter yesterday, should I spend all week looking for it ?

p.p.s. the pseudo-race car guy did get upset enough to scream nasty words at me in a pm for saying real drivers don't need that shit but since the thread was lost, may as well go on a illustrative tangent here

Some years ago somebody made a movie about Indy car racing. The movie was so-so but they did a great job of camerawork. Don't know if they used the original cinerama cameras or three side-by-side then blended but it was some really good camera action. To get it, they bought a three year old champ car and got permission to actually run it in races and on-track for practice etc. And to drive it they had to get a real driver, so they hired mario.

Camera rig was several hundred pounds on a big framework behind the driver, sort of a hindrance. The trouble was, mario outqualified his kid at least once, and during one race was running third and about to go for second when they had to tell him over the radio to cool it, this would look bad. Seems like he didn't need the newest gizmos

yeah, I haven't heard any more from marketing man. Great story about the movie filming, top quality is so much above ordinary and there are no shortages of examples.

 

[empower]

Can an OP nuke a thread?

The guy with the brake disk fasteners was getting it pretty hard. He's probably grateful the thread went away

damn, what'd i miss?

 

[empower]

And sometimes it's a bullshit moderator, e.g. jaguar36, who lets anyone say whatever they want, as long as they agree with him. But get two or three opposing views and it's "I'll have to shut this down" -- didn't pull that out my rear, you can go look at his russia thread which should not exist.

Which is why I am a believer in no political stuff.

However, I amn't god

p.s. none of the threads that were lost had any great significance, it's okay for blabla but who really cares how tall the ceiling is ? It's like I dropped a quarter yesterday, should I spend all week looking for it ?

p.p.s. the pseudo-race car guy did get upset enough to scream nasty words at me in a pm for saying real drivers don't need that shit but since the thread was lost, may as well go on a illustrative tangent here

Some years ago somebody made a movie about Indy car racing. The movie was so-so but they did a great job of camerawork. Don't know if they used the original cinerama cameras or three side-by-side then blended but it was some really good camera action. To get it, they bought a three year old champ car and got permission to actually run it in races and on-track for practice etc. And to drive it they had to get a real driver, so they hired mario.

Camera rig was several hundred pounds on a big framework behind the driver, sort of a hindrance. The trouble was, mario outqualified his kid at least once, and during one race was running third and about to go for second when they had to tell him over the radio to cool it, this would look bad. Seems like he didn't need the newest gizmos

i'm of the opinion that we should have a section for no holds barred, other than flat out personal attacks. i truly believe that it would clean up the rest of the forum and give people an outlet thats contained. you'll never get rid of political discussions. the way its set up right now, it just gives more work for the mods/admins to clean up threads. make a strict rule that all political topics only go in that section with a 1 strike policy. fuck up 2nd time and you're gone. watch how fast the forums will clean up.

 

[tylersteez]

yeah threads usually vanish on me every time the new guy overtightens a bolt

 

[technocrat]

i'm of the opinion that we should have a section for no holds barred, other than flat out personal attacks. i truly believe that it would clean up the rest of the forum and give people an outlet thats contained. you'll never get rid of political discussions. the way its set up right now, it just gives more work for the mods/admins to clean up threads. make a strict rule that all political topics only go in that section with a 1 strike policy. fuck up 2nd time and you're gone. watch how fast the forums will clean up.

the no holds barred is a good idea, but it is a bit simple. A lot of it is attention seeking behavior and if the "politics" is ruled out, some other way will be found. All up, with the crap, a lot of the the offenders have something to contribute and removing them would be a loss to the community. A bit of tolerance and acknowledging that between stimulus and response there is time, and as much time as people are prepared to give it.

 

[empower]

the no holds barred is a good idea, but it is a bit simple. A lot of it is attention seeking behavior and if the "politics" is ruled out, some other way will be found. All up, with the crap, a lot of the the offenders have something to contribute and removing them would be a loss to the community. A bit of tolerance and acknowledging that between stimulus and response there is time, and as much time as people are prepared to give it.

it doesnt have to be just politics, any contentious topic. the expectation would be that if you have the urge to be 'spicy' - you go into the 'off topic' area. everywhere else, you're expected to be courteous. break the rule once or twice and you're out.

 

[UptownSport]

Just move the offending post.

I see it here every so often

'Thread on Monarch moved to Monarch Forum'

why not
'Thread (or comment) on 'Ross Perot, does he wear dresses' moved to FREE FOR ALL forum'

again GAB has no moderation. Friday it's '[Common German Moniker for a certain Austrian Painter] Friday'

If someone bother's you IGNORE BUTTON them

 

[Joe Gwinn]

I'd call the proposed free-for-all forum the Soapbox forum, in honor of Speaker's Corner in Hyde Park, London, UK.

 

[Fully Defined]

I was eagerly awaiting the next round of posts in the 10x54 lead screw thread, that one is missing as well.

I'm actually kind of glad it's gone. It got weird.

In the end someone tried to accuse me of not being a machinist because I want an industry print for a leadscrew, and I'm still a little confused where that one came from. I just want to source one whose print matches the damaged one in front of me, because Clausing doesn't seem to stock replacement parts and has no timeline for importing them. Along the way, I discovered that it is actually true that prints are unavailable, but not for any of the reasons anyone posted on the thread. It's just incompetence, full stop.

Anyway, joke's on you guys because I am not a machinist anymore. The VA finally came through and I'm now in VR&E, studying mechanical engineering.

 

[Fully Defined]

i'm of the opinion that we should have a section for no holds barred, other than flat out personal attacks. i truly believe that it would clean up the rest of the forum and give people an outlet thats contained. you'll never get rid of political discussions. the way its set up right now, it just gives more work for the mods/admins to clean up threads. make a strict rule that all political topics only go in that section with a 1 strike policy. fuck up 2nd time and you're gone. watch how fast the forums will clean up.

The problem with this strategy is who gets to decide what is political. Not liking a certain person or party or whatnot is one thing, but what about talking about the cost of private health insurance in hiring? That could easily get political, but it's a practical shop business question.
Being especially strict can have second and third order effects of normalizing certain political alignments, and to the exclusion of others. It's one of the reasons I avoid most forums like this. Good intentions can do a lot of damage.

 

[eKretz]

The problem with this strategy is who gets to decide what is political. Not liking a certain person or party or whatnot is one thing, but what about talking about the cost of private health insurance in hiring? That could easily get political, but it's a practical shop business question.
Being especially strict can have second and third order effects of normalizing certain political alignments, and to the exclusion of others. It's one of the reasons I avoid most forums like this. Good intentions can do a lot of damage.

You're good on that one. It's shop-related. Not petty bickering over policies or political differences. See the distinction?

 

[???]

The problem with this strategy is who gets to decide what is political.

The forum owner and moderators make these decisions. I can't understand why people don't get this. If I attend a sitting of the parliament and start carrying on like a pork chop I will be ejected. No difference here apart from the fact that a persons identity is often concealed which leads to some atrocious behavior, if people said some of the things that are said on this forum to a persons face there would be blows exchanged.

 

[???]

Anyway, joke's on you guys because I am not a machinist anymore.

Actually the jokes on you because you are no longer one of the chosen few.

 

[eKretz]

The forum owner and moderators make these decisions. I can't understand why people don't get this. If I attend a sitting of the parliament and start carrying on like a pork chop I will be ejected. No difference here apart from the fact that a persons identity is often concealed which leads to some atrocious behavior, if people said some of the things that are said on this forum to a persons face there would be blows exchanged.

That's one of the things I try to get across to people, personally. If everybody would behave here like they would if they were talking to someone in person, everything would be a lot better.

 

[???]

That's one of the things I try to get across to people, personally. If everybody would behave here like they would if they were talking to someone in person, everything would be a lot better.

Obviously we all know those that don't play well with others even if its in person. But we can always have fun with them. It's really not worth getting upset over political leaning and opinions etc. Now if you tell me that an Okuma is better than a Makino I will lose my shit

 

[M. Moore]

I just found this thread, are the vanished threads being searched for and restored or is it game over?
Shouldn’t the guy that hit the delete button be the one to spend his own time finding them if possible?