FP4NC with NC-T400

[rimcanyon]

I bought an FP4NC today, primarily to get the NC-T400 table. The machine has been on Facebook Market Place a year, the seller told me. It is a D3 machine, and seems to be pretty low use.

Question for the Bay Area machinists: I need to rent a trailer to haul it home. None of the rental agencies in Monterey have equipment trailers with a hydraulic lift. Where can I get one in San Jose or Santa Cruz? The FP4NC weighs 6000 pounds, so I need a trailer strong enough to get it done.

 

[rklopp]

I’ve rented a drop deck trailer from 5th Ave Rental in Redwood City a couple times. Don’t know if it would carry 3 tons. I’m glad you’re not using your old trailer.

 

[rimcanyon]

Thanks Rich. I will call them Monday.

Yes, the old trailer is fine for 2 tons, although some would disagree. It was made for a bobcat 550, and has a single axle.

I also need to rent a pallet jack. Mine will move an FP2NC, but another ton is a different ballgame.

 

[eKretz]

Good grab. I asked the guy a week ago if he'd separate the table. Thought about buying it myself.

 

[rimcanyon]

I wouldn't have bought it without seeing it in person. And I had second thoughts. The guy had moved it outside under tarps and it was raining today when I visited. The X axis servo was sticking out, so it has been rained on all winter. However, the thick gasket between the servo and the cover looked good. These were designed for coolant, so I hope my decision was not fool-hardy. The big green box was inside the shop and everything I looked at under the tarp was well protected. One side cover was cracked, but they repair pretty well with Gorilla glue. So I bought it, just for the NCT. I am keeping my fingers crossed that no water got into the X servo.

The green cabinet had a big sign on it about how to change speeds on the high speed head, which was a puzzler. This is a 1984 machine with a single speed vertical head, not a flip-head. Perhaps the original owner had the NCT on a different machine, or perhaps they had a speeder installed. I checked inside the green cabinet, and it had the servo boards for the C-axis.

We discussed selling the table separately, I mentioned a price and I think he would have gone for it, but I couldn't pass up the FP4NC. There are a few times I have needed longer travels than the FP2 has. I have several engine cases needing line bores, and I think Ross has done that with his FP4.

 

[AlfaGTA]

Photos of the offering if I’m not mistaken showed two coolant tanks, so once upon a time there was a second Deckel.
Did Porsche 4 cam cases , line bore the mains, rebored the jack shaft housing and the oil pump case bore after trimming the case joining faces.
Don’t think I would attempt this without having the “ Capto” tooling. To include an anti vibration long boring bar $$$$$$ to do the jack shaft bores.

Cheers Ross

 

[Dan from Oakland]

Most Sunbelt rental yards have the small hydraulic trailers available because they are used to move the small manlifts. These will handle a small mill with no problem. I l know the Sumbelt in Pittsburg or Concord have them, as a buddy moved a Bridgeport in one recently. Nice score- never figured why someone did not grab this machine before now.

 

[rimcanyon]

Photos of the offering if I’m not mistaken showed two coolant tanks, so once upon a time there was a second Deckel.
Did Porsche 4 cam cases , line bore the mains, rebored the jack shaft housing and the oil pump case bore after trimming the case joining faces.
Don’t think I would attempt this without having the “ Capto” tooling. To include an anti vibration long boring bar $$$$$$ to do the jack shaft bores.

Cheers Ross

We couldn’t find the second coolant tank, so maybe the second deckel went away with it.

Great to hear about doing Porsche 4 cam cases on an FP4NC. The 1600 cases have a similar footprint. The FP2NC work area is just not large enough to surface the case joining faces.

Since I don’t have the anti-vibration long boring bars, perhaps the best route for me is to go with alignment bushings installed in the case, the way it has been traditionally done for VW/Porsche.

 

[Mud]

Most Sunbelt rental yards have the small hydraulic trailers available because they are used to move the small manlifts. These will handle a small mill with no problem.

I rented one of those to move a FP4NC with a standard table. The hydraulics would not lift the deck with the machine on it. Caused some consternation on a Sunday 4 states away from home, but managed to get it up using a lugall to assist.

 

[Martin P]

The machine is not 3 tons.
Probably just a tic over 2 tons.
If you removed the table and move it separately with he cabinet, the bare machine will be under 2 tons.
On a flat surface a pallet jack can handle it, but best with 2 people.

I do like those trailers. Never seen one like that.

 

[Mud]

The machine is not 3 tons.
Probably just a tic over 2 tons.
If you removed the table and move it separately with he cabinet, the bare machine will be under 2 tons.
On a flat surface a pallet jack can handle it, but best with 2 people.

I do like those trailers. Never seen one like that.

FWIW that trailer was rated at 5000 lbs. Towed OK but didn't even come close to lifting the machine when I pushed the up button, just blew through the relief valve.
After I had it off, my 5K forklift struggled a lot to move it. Then I put it on a 5K pallet jack, it was clearly overloaded and a little scary.
I went by the weights in the Deckel manuals while preparing for the move, afterward I decided they were wrong. I'd guess it was at least 5500 with the std table and control box, perhaps more. JMO, I didn't get to weigh it.

 

[AlfaGTA]

We discussed selling the table separately, I mentioned a price and I think he would have gone for it, but I couldn't pass up the FP4NC.

Man, wish you hadn’t mentioned this.
Kept me awake last night thinking about that table.
Cheers Ross

 

[eKretz]

Man, wish you hadn’t mentioned this.
Kept me awake last night thinking about that table.
Cheers Ross

Don't lose too much sleep. When I asked, he didn't seem very keen on the idea. Maybe if the price was the same or much closer to his asking price on the entire machine he might have went for it. But only to a local, for sure.

 

[AlfaGTA]

I rented one of those to move a FP4NC with a standard table. The hydraulics would not lift the deck with the machine on it. Caused some consternation on a Sunday 4 states away from home, but managed to get it up using a lugall to assist.
View attachment 436146

Have rented "similar" drop deck trailers for machine moves. Worked pretty well..My issue was that the batteries that powered the hydraulics were almost always close to dead.
Always brought along a good battery and jumpers, just to be sure....


Cheers Ross

 

[Mud]

Have rented "similar" drop deck trailers for machine moves. Worked pretty well..My issue was that the batteries that powered the hydraulics were almost always close to dead.
Always brought along a good battery and jumpers, just to be sure....


Cheers Ross

I was wishing that was the case. I had a booster box with me. Not so though, I had the seller holding the pump switch and while it screamed I reefed on the 1.5 ton Lugall supplementing the pull of the cylinder. I was convinced we were on the edge of breaking the trailer or bending the linkage beyond easy repair but once it was half way up it went a little better and we got it latched in place. The ID plate on the trailer said max load 5000 lbs. I expected more leeway built into it.

 

[rimcanyon]

I checked with all the rental places within 25 miles, none had a drop deck trailer, or knew what that was. After we got to talking, United Rental, Herc Rentals and Sunbelt Rental all had what they call hydraulic trailers. I guess its just a question of terminology. I am going with the one at Sunbelt, it uses a 2 5/16” ball hitch, while the one at United requires a Pintle hook. The move is pushed out until April 27 due to schedule conflicts.

 

[rimcanyon]

The machine is home and in the shop. Boy are FP4NC's difficult to move on a pallet jack, even one rated for 8000 lbs! It took three of us to push it up the small incline into the garage.

It will be a while until I get it running. My plan is to put the NCT400 on the Fp2NC and use the FP4NC for general machining.

My trailer rental did not work out. But there was a towing company next door to the shop where I bought the machine and they were happy to do it. Fine with me. Photos of the move follow, I will update with more once I get the machine working.

 

[rimcanyon]

The machine has a Don Sentner tag on it. Too bad he is not still around, I would love to know the history. It has hour meters for both the machine and the spindle. 2500 hours on the spindle. That’s hardly broken in! I just hope there is no damage from rain to the spindle. I really need to get it running!

 

[eKretz]

The machine has a Don Sentner tag on it. Too bad he is not still around, I would love to know the history. It has hour meters for both the machine and the spindle. 2500 hours on the spindle. That’s hardly broken in! I just hope there is no damage from rain to the spindle. I really need to get it running!

What's that look like? Got a picture?

 

[rimcanyon]

There were three tags on the machine. Did Deckel make a high speed spindle for the 1984 FC NT machines, other than the two speed flip heads that came out later?:





This answers part of my question, it was from Lawrence Livermore. Anyone know what AHJ means?