What processes would you offer as a shop starting over?

[SND]

Could it be that you do not see the work because you don't have a wire machine?

Nah, there's just no demand in my area to justify one. If there was, one of the much bigger job shops would have bought one by now but nope, I've talked to some, they don't see drawings requiring it hardly ever either. Never seen or heard of anyone with a swiss type screw machine around here either. If there's one it's probably a company making it's own product in-house. Heat treating needs to be shipped a couple provinces away too, good anodizing, etc.

 

[mhajicek]

Find something you're better than the other guy at, that's in demand. Get machines that are good at that. Do that.

 

[Comatose]

Anyone can run a mill or a lathe. It seems like nobody on earth can run an anodizing line.

just saying...

 

[Donkey Hotey]

Anyone can run a mill or a lathe. It seems like nobody on earth can run an anodizing line.

This is amazing to me. Without naming names, the biggest anodizer I know of in Los Angeles, can't or won't even attempt to deliver consistent colors. Red comes deep burgundy once and bright red the next. They do amazing work but, the color is the color and you had better like it or else.

The owner / manager guy I asked about it actually got angry when even asked about it. All I wanted to know is what kind of lot sizes and grouping I should do to ensure that everything on an assembly matched (all anodized together). He acted like I said something disparaging about his mother. Imagine the soup nazi: "No anodizing for you! Two years!"

From casual observation, there didn't seem to be enough process control (times and temperatures). I'm sure they had mental targets but, they weren't controlled and tracked. It was all very shoot-from-the-hip and you get what you get. Tank too warm? Acid too strong? Someone went to the bathroom and left the parts in too long? Blue came out too dark? Oh well.

 

[CarrollJamieson]

It seems like there is a lot of room for improvement with finishing operations. I've dealt with powder coating quite a bit and it seems to be quite uncontrolled also with most shops. Light some times, orange-peel another... It amazes me with the amount of marginal finishing shops how they still seem to do well. I think the key to creating a next level finishing shop would be to remove the labor and somehow automate the process so you can have a defined process and eliminate some of the human variability. Dang it, now I'm gonna be up all night thinking about how I could make that happen!

 

[john.k]

Powder coating has some of the worst hillbillies Ive ever seen in the finishing trades .....and that includes sandblasters.

 

[Comatose]

3d scanners have gotten quite cheap. I'd think a system that could scan a part and then automatically calculate a blasting pattern and feed it to a low-cost motion system for blasting or painting or whatever might do pretty well. Low cost because the motion system is gonna live a hard and short life.

I mean, I have a full robot blasting setup, but man THAT isn't easy.

Dang it now I'm thinking on it too.

 

[MikeBurgess]

It seems like there is a lot of room for improvement with finishing operations. I've dealt with powder coating quite a bit and it seems to be quite uncontrolled also with most shops. Light some times, orange-peel another... It amazes me with the amount of marginal finishing shops how they still seem to do well. I think the key to creating a next level finishing shop would be to remove the labor and somehow automate the process so you can have a defined process and eliminate some of the human variability. Dang it, now I'm gonna be up all night thinking about how I could make that happen!

The problem with powder coating in general is everyone is looking for the lowest price, there are high end shops in my area but they are expensive and normally don't want to play with small runs.

 

[Nerv]

Find something you're better than the other guy at, that's in demand. Get machines that are good at that. Do that.

My father has spent his entire life becoming one of the best electroplating companies in North America for chrome, gold, nickel and more. He has done all the plating on many show cars that have sold high at Barret Jackson and been in magazine articles but he is too old school to know how to market himself and the special high quality of his shop. I've seen him save parts that clients thought would be scrap and when it's a very rare part that is valuable all of itself! I think being the best at what you do can keep you busy IF you know how to inform the people that need what you do and value getting high quality and don't mind paying what that extra quality should cost. If they don't know you exist then it really doesn't matter.

Unfortunately he is out of Mission, British Columbia, and I'm out of Alberta so I'm not much use to him. I would love to hear ideas on how best to market a unique process like his these days. I was thinking shows like "Lost Car Rescue" on the History channel as those guys are out of BC too, but I honestly don't really know that industry nearly well enough to have an informed opinion about it.

 

[mhajicek]

I think being the best at what you do can keep you busy IF you know how to inform the people that need what you do and value getting high quality and don't mind paying what that extra quality should cost. If they don't know you exist then it really doesn't matter.

Word of mouth is working fine for me. One can only expand so fast without taking on a lot of debt.

 

[Strostkovy]

I'm working on offering low volume sheet metal stamping. But you can't do that; I called dibs.

 

[Garwood]

My father has spent his entire life becoming one of the best electroplating companies in North America for chrome, gold, nickel and more. He has done all the plating on many show cars that have sold high at Barret Jackson and been in magazine articles but he is too old school to know how to market himself and the special high quality of his shop. I've seen him save parts that clients thought would be scrap and when it's a very rare part that is valuable all of itself! I think being the best at what you do can keep you busy IF you know how to inform the people that need what you do and value getting high quality and don't mind paying what that extra quality should cost. If they don't know you exist then it really doesn't matter.

Unfortunately he is out of Mission, British Columbia, and I'm out of Alberta so I'm not much use to him. I would love to hear ideas on how best to market a unique process like his these days. I was thinking shows like "Lost Car Rescue" on the History channel as those guys are out of BC too, but I honestly don't really know that industry nearly well enough to have an informed opinion about it.

Most of my products are automotive. There are endless numbers of forums and facebook groups for vehicles. My marketing recipe has been to sign up to a forum and just devote a little time everyday to being helpful and friendly. Absolutely no self promotion for awhile. Wait until someone else starts discussing your products or when there's an opportunity to give an experienced opinion, genuinely share some of your knowledge. Maybe suggest a person who could use your product can message you privately so you can make a recommendation. After awhile the forum/group members will figure out what you do, that you're helpful and they'll promote the shit out of your business.

I have documented my own vehicle builds on forums without disclosing I'm the guy who made most of the parts. Inevitably people ask where you got stuff and after they ask I'll post a link.

I've had product ideas and found the exact thing I'm thinking of making being discussed already by guys on a forum. I've worked myself right into the discussion with great humility, then documented the design, prototype, testing and production of the product in their existing thread with thousands of subscribers getting notifications to check every thread update. I'll never post a link to my website or self promote in the thread. I just talk about how it's made, all the steps to make it right and why I chose to do things a certain way and I'll ask for opinions on how other guys would do it. I'll be overwhelmed with messages to share the links to buy the product when it's done.

If you join a group and start off with "I'm big Dick Johnson and I make the best (insert product here) on the planet- Order yours today!" You'll look like a douche.

 

[Strostkovy]

The problem with powder coating in general is everyone is looking for the lowest price, there are high end shops in my area but they are expensive and normally don't want to play with small runs.

There seems to be a market for good, cheap, and black. You can pay extra for primer if you really want.

We do a ton of powder coating like that for our internal products, but don't often open it up to other people because they always bring in parts that are greasy and painted over decade old existing powder coat, which we do not want to touch. We do some OEM style stuff for other people, but can't keep up with our own products right now.

 

[Houdini]

Most of my products are automotive. There are endless numbers of forums and facebook groups for vehicles. My marketing recipe has been to sign up to a forum and just devote a little time everyday to being helpful and friendly. Absolutely no self promotion for awhile. Wait until someone else starts discussing your products or when there's an opportunity to give an experienced opinion, genuinely share some of your knowledge. Maybe suggest a person who could use your product can message you privately so you can make a recommendation. After awhile the forum/group members will figure out what you do, that you're helpful and they'll promote the shit out of your business.

What are you Maritool or Orange Vise? haha j/k
Good marketing plan, care about your customers needs and values, who would have thought

 

[Houdini]

Find something you're better than the other guy at, that's in demand. Get machines that are good at that. Do that.

I think most the holes are filled at this point, Now its how much saturation can each difference handle

I think its funny to see each and every noob shop video on Youtube, and the guy starts off by saying he looked and found a need in the market and setout to fill it.
Then in the explaining of the shop, they are just a small job shop running a couple 3 axis VMC's, doing high mix low volume like everyone , making whatever, who ever gives them to keep their heads above water.

 

[mattthemuppet]

Anyone can run a mill or a lathe. It seems like nobody on earth can run an anodizing line.

just saying...

From my limited experience anodising I'd guess it's because everything has to be perfect as multiple factors (part cleanliness and features, acid strength, part size, bath temp, anodising time, dye temp maybe) affect the outcome and many of them interact. So a couple of small differences that are well within tolerance can compound to screw things up. I once accidentally anodised some pieces so they looked like lipstick colours, then stripped and reanodised them sparkly pink. That was just acid bath temperature.

Honestly, it's more like magic than anything else

 

[Donkey Hotey]

From my limited experience anodising I'd guess it's because everything has to be perfect as multiple factors (part cleanliness and features, acid strength, part size, bath temp, anodising time, dye temp maybe) affect the outcome and many of them interact. So a couple of small differences that are well within tolerance can compound to screw things up.

We've never had it better in terms of low cost industrial controls available. I have to believe that if someone applied tightened process control, they could nail the recipe to get a consistent range of color saturation and finish.

 

[cnctoolcat]

Sheet metal shops are as rare as cnc milling and turning shops are common.

In my greater region, I know of only two sheet metal shops (industrial, not HVAC), and they stay covered-up with work.

Laser/waterjet cutting, bending and forming, punch press, spot and tig welding, finishing...it doesn't seem like rocket science, but few posses the skills.

ToolCat

 

[Garwood]

We've never had it better in terms of low cost industrial controls available. I have to believe that if someone applied tightened process control, they could nail the recipe to get a consistent range of color saturation and finish.

I know that locally, the most successful anodizer is run by a chemical engineer. It is an advanced understanding of what is going on in addition to advanced process control.

 

[Bill D]

My Uncle George got a degree in chemistry then he got a job in a plating shop. This would be back around 1933. Got bored and went to the navy for corrosion protection. Got bored when. they would not let him come to work on his vacation days so he went to work for Lockheed as a real actual rocket scientist.
So there is more to plating them just seat of the pants. They did not have all these fancy controllers back then either.
BilL D